Movies that should get Oscar nominations, but probably won't.

[Neverending]

Tropic Thunder has been released, so summer season is pretty much over. Yea, summer season technically ends on Labor Day but with the exception of Hamlet 2 there's really nothing interesting left.

So, anyway, the next season is the winter/awards season. That's where we'll see all the Oscar nominees & winners. However...this summer season, even though it has a few Oscar worthy stuff, is usually ignored cause it's a summer movie. So...aside from Heath Ledger who or what should get nominated but probably won't?

I say Robert Downey, Jr. for Tropic Thunder. http://www.comingsoon.net/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[FranklinTard]

danny mcbride in hot rod.


his performance just works on so many levels!

[Neverending]

danny mcbride in hot rod.


his performance just works on so many levels!

I was talking about 2008 movies.

[FranklinTard]

oh i must have missed the 'rules'.

[Neverending]

oh i must have missed the 'rules'.

Or maybe you just didn't pay attention to, I don't know, the threads title.

[FranklinTard]

yes that definitely implies only 2008 movies...:rolleyes: (by the way, if you think i was serious about hot rod... wow)

[DragnFire22]

"Should - won't" vs. "should have - didn't".

[SnoBorderZero]

Are we seriously handing out nominees in August? With the exception of The Dark Knight and Wall*E, nothing else deserves anything.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

Heath Ledger as the Joker should get a nom. but won't due to the..."rules".

[SnoBorderZero]

Well it wouldn't be a topic without Skid's ridiculous theories.

[Dracula]

Heath Ledger as the Joker should get a nom. but won't due to the..."rules".

what "rules"

[King_of_Skid_Row]

^The dumbest things ever imaginable created by the stupid Academy. They keep it from the public but at times it gets pretty glaring and almost comes out.

[Neverending]

Are we seriously handing out nominees in August? With the exception of The Dark Knight and Wall*E, nothing else deserves anything.

You're almost correct. Have you seen Tropic Thunder? Downey should get nominated. However, he has two things against him. One is that it's a summber blockbuster and the other is that it's a comedy. And we all know how much the Academy hates comedy.

[halo7]

His performance isn't Oscar worthy, sorry. The Academy isn't that against comedy. Little Miss Sunshine and Juno were both nominated for Best Picture and even Borat snagged a nomination for Best Screenplay.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

You're almost correct. Have you seen Tropic Thunder? Downey should get nominated. However, he has two things against him. One is that it's a summber blockbuster and the other is that it's a comedy. And we all know how much the Academy hates comedy.

If the film is considered a legitimate light hearted comedy then film is disqualified regardless of actor/actress's performances. The performance will be noted but not sent to final round. If film is legitimate half comedy/half drama then film and actors/actresses have shot at final round.

[halo7]

Tropic Thunder, light hearted? Your conspiracies don't even match up anymore.

[Matrix_Fan]

If Comedies are disqualified, how did Annie Hall and Shakespeare In Love win Best Picture?

[King_of_Skid_Row]

I never said it was. I'm just stating one of the secret rules. Downey might get considered or listed but there's a lot of comp. Comedies aren't disqualified. Ones that are like Tropic Thunder never usually get far.

[Matrix_Fan]

If the film is considered a legitimate light hearted comedy then film is disqualified regardless of actor/actress's performances.


You were saying?

If you didn't mean what you said, then don't throw out the word "disqualified" like it's candy.

[Neverending]

His performance isn't Oscar worthy, sorry.

Why? He completely disappeared into the performance and was hilarious. Why does every Oscar-worthy performance have to be something serious. Why can't a great comedic performance not be acknowleged?

The Academy isn't that against comedy. Little Miss Sunshine and Juno were both nominated for Best Picture and even Borat snagged a nomination for Best Screenplay.

Yea, but both Little Miss Sunshine and Juno had a lot of drama in them. As for Borat they completely chickened out. I mean...screenplay? You gotta be kidding me. That movie had, maybe, 10 mins of scripted material.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

Read my sentence in full. Certain comedies aren't disqualified. Some are. This rule I actually agree with. Tropic Thunder and Pirates of the Caribbean( first one) are comedies that would not be disqualified. At least I don't think. Unless they amended the rule.

[Dracula]

Why? He completely disappeared into the performance and was hilarious. Why does every Oscar-worthy performance have to be something serious. Why can't a great comedic performance not be acknowleged?


Kevin Kline won for A Fish Called Wanda
Jack Palance won for City Slickers
Martin Landau won for Ed Wood
Michael Caine won for Hannah and Her Sisters
Don Ameche won for Cocoon
Johnny Depp got nominated for POTC
Sean Penn was nominated for Sweet and Lowdown
Dustin Hoffman was nominated for Wag the Dog
Robin Williams was nominated for The Fisher King and Good Morning Vietnam
David Paymer was nominated for Mr. Saturday Night
Michael Lerner was nominated for Barton Fink
Martin Landau was nominated for Crimes and Misdemeanors
Vincent Gardenia was nominated for Moonstruck
Noriyuki Pat Morita was nominated for The Karate Kid


I could go on...

[Neverending]

Kevin Kline won for A Fish Called Wanda
Jack Palance won for City Slickers
Martin Landau won for Ed Wood
Michael Caine won for Hannah and Her Sisters
Don Ameche won for Cocoon
Johnny Depp got nominated for POTC
Sean Penn was nominated for Sweet and Lowdown
Dustin Hoffman was nominated for Wag the Dog
Robin Williams was nominated for The Fisher King and Good Morning Vietnam
David Paymer was nominated for Mr. Saturday Night
Michael Lerner was nominated for Barton Fink
Martin Landau was nominated for Crimes and Misdemeanors
Vincent Gardenia was nominated for Moonstruck
Noriyuki Pat Morita was nominated for The Karate Kid


I could go on...

Now, how many actors/actress have been nominated or won for a dramatic performance? When you compare the lists you'll see that the Academy prefers drama. And you can't blame it on lack of good comedic performances because every year there's ATLEAST one or two brilliant comedic performances.

[SnoBorderZero]

Well I could make a case for Chris Farrely being hilarious in Tommy Boy, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give him an Oscar for it.

[Neverending]

Well I could make a case for Chris Farrely being hilarious in Tommy Boy, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give him an Oscar for it.

Well, seeing as how Chris Farley was just being, well, Chris Farley I'd agree with you. However, Robert Downey Jr was not playing Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder. He gave a perfectly legitmate performance.

[MasterChief117]

I think either The Dark Knight or Wall*E should get Best Picture Nod, It would be nice to see Heath get a nod for Best Supporting. Its all possible.

[Neverending]

I think either The Dark Knight or Wall*E should get Best Picture Nod, It would be nice to see Heath get a nod for Best Supporting. Its all possible.

Heath Ledger will most likely get a Best Supporting Actor nomination. Mostly cause of his passing. The movie itself has a chance to get nominated in the major categories, but that really depends on the fall/winter/awards season and how good the movies will be. As for Wall*E, it will get nominated for Best Animated Feature and that's pretty much it.

[Dracula]

Now, how many actors/actress have been nominated or won for a dramatic performance? When you compare the lists you'll see that the Academy prefers drama. And you can't blame it on lack of good comedic performances because every year there's ATLEAST one or two brilliant comedic performances.

There's no doubt they prefer dramatic work, but frankly, I think it makes sence that high brow work sort of has a preference over low brow comedies, that's just in the nature of Award ceremonies. Thats why the Junos and Sideways of the world have a clear advantage over the Tropic Thunders.

Another major factor is that comedy is a very subjective thing, some people just have a very different sense of humor than other people and since awards require a mass of voters that's going to work against them.

[Neverending]

Drama is subjective as well. There's some dramatic films that people just had to make fun of, like Brokeback Mountains a few years back. Yet it got tons of awards even though many in the general public were making fun of it.

[MasterChief117]

I think if Heath Ledger gets a nod, millions more people will check in on the Oscars just to see if he gets it, that alone will be something that the Oscars will have to think about.

[Dracula]

I think if Heath Ledger gets a nod, millions more people will check in on the Oscars just to see if he gets it, that alone will be something that the Oscars will have to think about.

I do think Ledger is worthy, but getting ratings for the ceramony should NEVER be the reason the Academy chooses who to award.

[JBond]

And I doubt the people who vote would benefit from higher ratings, anyway.

[halo7]

And I doubt the people who vote would benefit from higher ratings, anyway.

Alfred Molina has his hands in more projects than you would think.

[Where's my elephant?]

Since it's a Summer movie and didn't do too well in the art house circuit:

Ben Kingsley - The Wackness

[sshuttari]

Heath will get the nomination

Wall*E will in the end won't get nomined for Best Pic. but I'm hopeful

Also I really really hope Dark Knight get's nominated.

[JBond]

I hope Dark Knight gets nominateed only so I don't have to hear the complaints for years to come on these boards.

[Doomsday]

Dude, all I know is, if Dark Knight doesn't win Academy Awards for Best Picture, Director, Actor, Actress, Supporting Actor, Supporting Actress, Film Editing, Adapted Screenplay, Original Screenplay, Costume Design, Visual Effects, Foreign Film, Short Live Action Film, Short Animated Film, Documentary, and Animated Film, I am boycotting the Oscars, movies, and America forever!!!

[JT3294]

Dude, all I know is, if Dark Knight doesn't win Academy Awards for Best Picture, Director, Actor, Actress, Supporting Actor, Supporting Actress, Film Editing, Adapted Screenplay, Original Screenplay, Costume Design, Visual Effects, Foreign Film, Short Live Action Film, Short Animated Film, Documentary, and Animated Film, I am boycotting the Oscars, movies, and America forever!!!

I've already boycotted the f'in oscars. They don't mean crap. They gave Titanic best picture... lest we forget.

The awards that MEAN anything, are the awards the fans and peers vote on. Dark Knight will sweep the board at the MTV, People's Choice, Nickelodeon, and all the other awards like that.

Heath WILL get a nod, not because he's dead, but because that was not a performance by an actor... it was a complete transformation. I feel comfortable saying that... if I hadn't known that Heath Ledger was playing the Joker... that I wouldn't have known it was him playing the part... he was THAT good.

I think he has a legitimate shot at winning... more so than Johnny Depp did as Jack Sparrow.

[JT3294]

And where did you hear about these "official" rules the Academy has on what can and can't be nominated.

There may be preferred guidelines and unspoken preferences but "RULES"?

[JT3294]

OH... and on the topic...

I'd say Cloverfield for Sound and Video Editing.

[sshuttari]

Tom Cruise supporting for Tropic Thunder

[JT3294]

I know this is goofy and far fetched... but ideally I'd like to see Gary Oldman snatch up a Supporting Actor nod too WITH Ledger (Ledger winning though). I thought he was damn good too. Just a fleeting wish though lol.

[IanTheCool]

I've already boycotted the f'in oscars. They don't mean crap. They gave Titanic best picture... lest we forget.


What is so wrong with Titanic? I just don't get it.

[JT3294]

It deserved best visual effects... but NOT Best Picture.

LA Confidential was better... As Good as it Gets should have won... and even Good Will Hunting was better (despite the fact it had Ben Asshat in it)

[Doomsday]

The awards that MEAN anything, are the awards the fans and peers vote on. Dark Knight will sweep the board at the MTV, People's Choice, Nickelodeon, and all the other awards like that.



That's the point of the Oscars, because believe it or not, the people involved have actual knowledge of film production and overall value, whereas your everyday joe really doesn't. Look at the MTV movie awards. Do you really think those are the best movies of the year? I guess Transformers really was the best movie then. POTC Dead Man's Chest was another winner, that was cinematic gold! Sorry, although you may disagree with the Oscars, I will take their word over those other popcorn awards any day.

[JT3294]

That's the point of the Oscars, because believe it or not, the people involved have actual knowledge of film production and overall value, whereas your everyday joe really doesn't. Look at the MTV movie awards. Do you really think those are the best movies of the year? I guess Transformers really was the best movie then. POTC Dead Man's Chest was another winner, that was cinematic gold! Sorry, although you may disagree with the Oscars, I will take their word over those other popcorn awards any day.

When it comes to entertainment value... then yes the popcorn flicks deserve the awards.

I generally don't watch movies based on production value alone... I watch movies to be entertained.

And apparently so do a ton of others. Personally, if I was in the industry, I'd rather make a movie that won a MTV Movie Award than one that won an Oscar. It's supposed to be about the fans, not the awards. And the fans choose those "Popcorn" awards.

[JT3294]

FOR example... how can a movie like Titanic be SOOOOOOOO great and win ALLLLLL those oscars... yet not 1 of the actors won an award, screenwriting went to Damon and Affleck... all the awards for creative performances and whatnot went elsewhere.

Titanic won technical awards. It was not the OVERALL best movie of the year... it was just the best looking and sounding of the year.

More often than not a Best Picture wins awards for 1 of the 4 acting categories or screenwriting... something.

[Matrix_Fan]

FOR example... how can a movie like Titanic be SOOOOOOOO great and win ALLLLLL those oscars... yet not 1 of the actors won an award, screenwriting went to Damon and Affleck... all the awards for creative performances and whatnot went elsewhere.

Maybe because in the acting and screenwriting category, the other films were better. But as an overall film, Titanic beat them out.

Besides, Cameron won for Best Director, so the film was pretty much a lock for Picture.

[JT3294]

Maybe because in the acting and screenwriting category, the other films were better. But as an overall film, Titanic beat them out.

Besides, Cameron won for Best Director, so the film was pretty much a lock for Picture.

Yeah, Cameron should not have won for best director. Like I said, that film deserved no oscars for anything creative because aside from the astounding visual effects, the movie was pointless.

And if the other films had better writers and actors... well those are 2 of the 3 pretty big pieces of the Overall Best Picture Puzzle... so maybe... I don't know... the fact that BOTH lead actors in As Good As It Gets WON their catagory...

It could have been a better movie... but I guess when you spend 200 Million on a movie and 150+ million on the visuals... you EARN a Best Picture.:rolleyes:

[DragnFire22]

When it comes to entertainment value... then yes the popcorn flicks deserve the awards.

I generally don't watch movies based on production value alone... I watch movies to be entertained.

And apparently so do a ton of others. Personally, if I was in the industry, I'd rather make a movie that won a MTV Movie Award than one that won an Oscar. It's supposed to be about the fans, not the awards. And the fans choose those "Popcorn" awards.

If you wanted an MTv award more than an Oscar, you wouldn't deserve to be in the industry.

[JT3294]

If you wanted an MTv award more than an Oscar, you wouldn't deserve to be in the industry.

No... statements like THAT one are what's wrong with the industry. I would make movies for FANS... not for the Academy. F**k the Academy... they don't pay for the movies they see... the fans do.

I'm one of those that would do anything in the Movie Industry for minimum survival wage (I'd do it making 40k which is what I make now.)

You sound like one of those who would get pissy because you're "going to make 5 mil on this film... my agent shoulda got me 10". That you?

[halo7]

Yes I am sure everyone here would turn down 5 million dollars. Besides, do you not realize Titanic won best movie at the MTV Movie Awards AND Best Picture at the Oscars?

[JT3294]

Yes I am sure everyone here would turn down 5 million dollars. Besides, do you not realize Titanic won best movie at the MTV Movie Awards AND Best Picture at the Oscars?

I'm not saying I'd turn it down, I'm saying that I'd do it for free. He's making it sound like the Academy are more important than the Fans... therefore he'd rather make more money than make a film that the people WHO PAY HIS SALARY would enjoy more.

And of course it won the MTV Movie Award, it made 600 mil in the US, obviously a lot of people would vote for Titanic... I never said that they were always different from the Oscars, I'm saying that you won't see The English Patient (very Oscar Worthy movie, but not entertaining per se) winning at MTV.

Titanic was an entertaining movie, all the ridiculous/needless romance aside.

[IanTheCool]

There is much more to film making than just being entertaining. Entertaining movies are fun for the moment but do not necessarily remain in the hearts and minds of the public.However, if a film has some real talent and skill behind it, it will last throughout time, similar to a great painting or a great sculpture or a great song.
The academy's job with the Oscars is to recognize this skill and overall achievement in making a great film. Do they always get things right, no. But they are looking beyond mere popularity and that is why they are still the premiere awards shows in the entertainment industry today.

[JT3294]

There is much more to film making than just being entertaining. Entertaining movies are fun for the moment but do not necessarily remain in the hearts and minds of the public.However, if a film has some real talent and skill behind it, it will last throughout time, similar to a great painting or a great sculpture or a great song.
The academy's job with the Oscars is to recognize this skill and overall achievement in making a great film. Do they always get things right, no. But they are looking beyond mere popularity and that is why they are still the premiere awards shows in the entertainment industry today.

I agree with that 100%... however more films that DID NOT win best picture last through time, longer than the best picture.

I.E. Without looking it up... what picture, released in 1977, won best picture?

wasn't Star Wars... it was Annie Hall for those of you guessing. Now ask... which one has endured time?

SOOO... my point, personally I'd rather make a Star Wars or a Texas Chainsaw Massacre than an Annie Hall or an English Patient... see what I mean?

[IanTheCool]

You selected out one year. And Star Wars was nominated for best picture and won quite a few of other awards as well. It was definitely recognized by the academy.

[SnoBorderZero]

Ummm Annie Hall has endured time quite well also considering it's cited as one of the best movies of all time. Yes, there are movies that didn't win that have lasted longer, but is that entirely fair because you're pitting a whole year against one movie. And yes I could say that The Terminator is viewed more than Amadeus, but that doesn't make it a better movie, it just means it's more entertaining.

And MTV awards and all those other stupid fan award shows are just meaningless. Every single category Johnny Depp is in he wins. Wow. He won for best villian OVER Javier Bardiem? Yeah, they sure got that one right. And with categories like best fight scene and best kiss, of course they have higher standards. Maybe the winner will get drenched in slime.

Yes, of course the Academy makes mistakes, but if you rely on fan opinions over people who actually watch movies then that's just wrong. As mentioned before, if we stuck to that then forget The Departed winning Best Pic, it would've gone to Dead Man's Chest. Yeah, that would've been EXACTLY the way to go. If I won an MTV award I wouldn't even show up, it'd probably be worse to win than lose one considering the terrible movies that do win.

[JT3294]

You selected out one year. And Star Wars was nominated for best picture and won quite a few of other awards as well. It was definitely recognized by the academy.

Yeah but I'm saying... who watches Annie Hall? Who has in the last 30 years? come on. Star Wars did not win best picture because it was a Sci Fi/Fantasy. It is still more entertaining NOW than Annie Hall is NOW. I'd rather make the fun to watch, escape from reality, MTV Award winner that fans like... than the ones the Academy likes... like Annie Hall.

Just a personal opinion and preference.

[JBond]

Perosnally, I think the problem is "Academy haters" just take it too seriously. How can any person or group of people correctly say what movie is best? You can't please all the people all of the time. You're critcizing The Academy for not corrrectly predicting (not what they're suppose to be doing, anyway) that Star Wars would be so huge?

[SnoBorderZero]

People watch Annie Hall all the time. Have YOU even seen the movie? MTV voters don't know ****, to them there's no Kurosawa, Bergmen, Capra, or Wilder. It's just Bay, Spielberg, Lucas, and any movie with Johnny Depp.

[JT3294]

Perosnally, I think the problem is "Academy haters" just take it too seriously. How can any person or group of people correctly say what movie is best? You can't please all the people all of the time.

That's right... and I'm not one of the Academy Haters just for the record... I'm just interested in different parts of film than the well done drama... They just seem a little too narrow minded for my personal tastes (again... if I was film maker.)

[IanTheCool]

Perosnally, I think the problem is "Academy haters" just take it too seriously. How can any person or group of people correctly say what movie is best?
Yes. That task should be left to me alone. ;)

[JT3294]

Yes. That task should be left to me alone. ;)

WWWWOOOOOOWWWWW lol :lol:

[JT3294]

People watch Annie Hall all the time. Have YOU even seen the movie? MTV voters don't know ****, to them there's no Kurosawa, Bergmen, Capra, or Wilder. It's just Bay, Spielberg, Lucas, and any movie with Johnny Depp.

Ok... that's ignorant because MTV wasn't around in that day.

I happen to love Wilder...

MTV Voters that "don't know ****" are the ones that pay to see those movies... so looks like you don't know ****

[SnoBorderZero]

Ok... that's ignorant because MTV wasn't around in that day.

I happen to love Wilder...

MTV Voters that "don't know ****" are the ones that pay to see those movies... so looks like you don't know ****

Right because box office receipts are what should determine a movie's value, how silly of me. So because I paid to see a movie I should be able to decide what should win? Regardless of if I think Dead Man's Chest was the best movie of the year? Uh, no. The Academy watches more than just movies that came out that year unlike the average moviegoer. They can compare/analyze films to judge what one sets the standard for that year and years to come. Yes, they get it wrong, but MTV voters (which BTW is a stupid, sugarcoated channel that's nothing like it was when it first rolled out) have no clue. Sorry.

[JT3294]

Right because box office receipts are what should determine a movie's value, how silly of me. So because I paid to see a movie I should be able to decide what should win? Regardless of if I think Dead Man's Chest was the best movie of the year? Uh, no.

Ummm... considering the Awards I'm talking about are FOR the PEOPLE to VOTE on... yes... yes you should be able to. As egotistical as you are... YOUR vote still counts the same as eveeryone elses.

The Academy watches more than just movies that came out that year unlike the average moviegoer. They can compare/analyze films to judge what one sets the standard for that year and years to come.

Wow... lol MTV is just an example... Spike, Teen Choice, People's Choice, yad yada... those awards. That's why there are those... and there are The Academy and Golden Globes. Put your thinking cap on there buddy.

Yes, they get it wrong, but MTV voters (which BTW is a stupid, sugarcoated channel that's nothing like it was when it first rolled out) have no clue. Sorry.

Wow lol... so they are just letting people by with ZERO education nowadays huh?

[SnoBorderZero]

Ummm... considering the Awards I'm talking about are FOR the PEOPLE to VOTE on... yes... yes you should be able to. As egotistical as you are... YOUR vote still counts the same as eveeryone elses.



Wow... lol MTV is just an example... Spike, Teen Choice, People's Choice, yad yada... those awards. That's why there are those... and there are The Academy and Golden Globes. Put your thinking cap on there buddy.



Wow lol... so they are just letting people by with ZERO education nowadays huh?
You were just saying that those stupid award shows have more merit than Academy votes. That's just stupid to think that they'd be able to make the right choices better.

Put your thinking cap on, I'm talking every single one of those stupid award shows that are meaningless. Where in a movie trailer do you see an actor adverstised as being a 5-time Teen Choice winner? Nowhere, because they don't matter.

Does that even make sense? I'm sorry I'm hating on your network that shows stupid shows like The Hills and other fake, sugarcoated shows but I like my television to have a little substance. I grew out of MTV at 14 (as well as the garbage music they play), I hope it hits you too someday.

[JT3294]

You were just saying that those stupid award shows have more merit than Academy votes. That's just stupid to think that they'd be able to make the right choices better.

Put your thinking cap on, I'm talking every single one of those stupid award shows that are meaningless. Where in a movie trailer do you see an actor adverstised as being a 5-time Teen Choice winner? Nowhere, because they don't matter.

Does that even make sense? I'm sorry I'm hating on your network that shows stupid shows like The Hills and other fake, sugarcoated shows but I like my television to have a little substance. I grew out of MTV at 14 (as well as the garbage music they play), I hope it hits you too someday.

:lol:

I haven't EVER watched MTV, i think it's stupid and pointless... and you are still not seeing the BIG picture.

If people are voting for a movie different from what the academy picks... THEY PREFER THAT MOVIE! So YES... it IS the RIGHT CHOICE!

I'm intelligent enough that I don't need a thinking cap... they advertise those things because they think it will bring in money... but if you've ever seen a movie because it said "Starring Academy Award Winner ********" you need to get a brain of your own. Those awards mean something to the fans that voted it and the star that wins it... it shows the STAR that his work is appreciated by the people he WORKS FOR!

HAHAHA and you were 14 like what, 4 years ago??? come on kid.

[SnoBorderZero]

:lol:

I haven't EVER watched MTV, i think it's stupid and pointless... and you are still not seeing the BIG picture.

If people are voting for a movie different from what the academy picks... THEY PREFER THAT MOVIE! So YES... it IS the RIGHT CHOICE!

I'm intelligent enough that I don't need a thinking cap... they advertise those things because they think it will bring in money... but if you've ever seen a movie because it said "Starring Academy Award Winner ********" you need to get a brain of your own. Those awards mean something to the fans that voted it and the star that wins it... it shows the STAR that his work is appreciated by the people he WORKS FOR!

HAHAHA and you were 14 like what, 4 years ago??? come on kid.

People meaning the average moviegoer? People who don't have a clue what they're talking about? Yeah I'd rather not see the award go to Dead Man's Chest, thanks. Exactly what movie years are you so bent about that makes the Academy so wrong? Your example of Annie Hall is stupid because a) I don't think you've even seen it and b) it's a damn good movie.

To think that the average moviegoer would be in charge of determining the best picture of the year is scary. People my age when citing their favorite movies consist of crap recently released, stuff like Scary Movie and Fast and the Furious. They haven't even heard of 2001, or Citizen Kane, or Vertigo. Those are the people who vote for those stupid "award" shows you love so much where the stupidest movies compete for the stupidest categories. Why would I want people like that determining Academy Awards? That's just stupid.

[JT3294]

Ha... laughable cause... I never said ANY of that.

I never said that "normal" people should be in charge of the Academy... you need some remedial learnins' in reading comprehension. All I said was that I put more weight on the entertainment value of movie awards that PEOPLE vote on.

I'm going to spell it out...

The Academy is all well and good, but they have different criteria. They USUALLY choose artsy movies that 1 or 2 viewings is enough... not movies where 5 years later you go... "Oh, I haven't seen this in a while."

So... once more... to reiterate EVERYTHING you ignored...

I DO NOT THINK that regular folks should run the Academy... I think, if I were a Director/Writer/Producer/Actor, that I would be more proud to win an award based on what the Audience felt, than what the Academy felt...

Get it? Or should you read it again?

[SnoBorderZero]

Ha... laughable cause... I never said ANY of that.

I never said that "normal" people should be in charge of the Academy... you need some remedial learnins' in reading comprehension. All I said was that I put more weight on the entertainment value of movie awards that PEOPLE vote on.

I'm going to spell it out...

The Academy is all well and good, but they have different criteria. They USUALLY choose artsy movies that 1 or 2 viewings is enough... not movies where 5 years later you go... "Oh, I haven't seen this in a while."

So... once more... to reiterate EVERYTHING you ignored...

I DO NOT THINK that regular folks should run the Academy... I think, if I were a Director/Writer/Producer/Actor, that I would be more proud to win an award based on what the Audience felt, than what the Academy felt...

Get it? Or should you read it again?

So entertainment value from award shows means... oh yeah, nothing.

Artsy movies? Really? Like what? Those "artsy" movies that are regarded as classics for technincal achievements such as 2001 weren't even nominated. Your argument is so wrong. So after 5 years no one watches The Godfather? Gone With the Wind? On the Waterfront? The Lord of the Rings? Silence of the Lambs? You're telling me no one watches these anymore?

Oh I get it. You'd be proud to win an MTV award over an Oscar. It's stupid, but I get it.

[JT3294]

So entertainment value from award shows means... oh yeah, nothing.

You're a bonehead lol. It means that the voters were more entertained by the winner than the non winners

Artsy movies? Really? Like what? Those "artsy" movies that are regarded as classics for technincal achievements such as 2001 weren't even nominated. Your argument is so wrong. So after 5 years no one watches The Godfather? Gone With the Wind? On the Waterfront? The Lord of the Rings? Silence of the Lambs? You're telling me no one watches these anymore?

:lol: Lol, no... no I'm NOT saying that. I watched the Godfather a few weeks ago. I'm saying... lol nvm... read your next quote... that's what I'm saying.

Oh I get it. You'd be proud to win an MTV award over an Oscar. It's stupid, but I get it.

Stupid to you... because you have no heart for that profession. You're like Barry Bonds... **** the fans, **** the game... gimme the money.

[SnoBorderZero]

You're a bonehead lol. It means that the voters were more entertained by the winner than the non winners



:lol: Lol, no... no I'm NOT saying that. I watched the Godfather a few weeks ago. I'm saying... lol nvm... read your next quote... that's what I'm saying.



Stupid to you... because you have no heart for that profession. You're like Barry Bonds... **** the fans, **** the game... gimme the money.

So we're supposed to base the better movie off of entertainment? Oh, so by that logic Die Hard is the best movie of all time. Exactly, you're right, we should go by that so Michael Bay can win every year.

Where am I saying **** the fans? I'm saying I hold no merit in what movie wins a Spike or Teen Choice award over an Oscar because the movies that aren't very good are often nominated. Never Back Down was nominated for the MTV awards. Seriously? Wtf. The people's choice isn't always the correct one, and if people had their way I can tell you exactly what would've won for each year. I mean hey, by your idea, why should No Country for Old Men have won when Transformers came out that year? Nevermind it's leagues better, more people saw Transformers and it was more "entertaining". Yeah, the people know what's up.

[SnoBorderZero]

Also who says you have to make movies for anybody? Why don't you just make a movie and hope everyone likes it?

[Doomsday]

JT is making my brain melt.

[JT3294]

So we're supposed to base the better movie off of entertainment? Oh, so by that logic Die Hard is the best movie of all time. Exactly, you're right, we should go by that so Michael Bay can win every year.

Where am I saying **** the fans? I'm saying I hold no merit in what movie wins a Spike or Teen Choice award over an Oscar because the movies that aren't very good are often nominated. Never Back Down was nominated for the MTV awards. Seriously? Wtf. The people's choice isn't always the correct one, and if people had their way I can tell you exactly what would've won for each year. I mean hey, by your idea, why should No Country for Old Men have won when Transformers came out that year? Nevermind it's leagues better, more people saw Transformers and it was more "entertaining". Yeah, the people know what's up.


Haha.. wow... I never said... it's seriously pointless.

I... WOULD... RATHER... HAVE... A... MOVIE... THAT... THE... FANS... LIKE... MORE... THAN... WHAT... THE... ACADEMY... LIKES...

You said: "People meaning the average moviegoer? People who don't have a clue what they're talking about?"

THOSE fans. You're saying people don't have a clue about what they like? Ok bud.

Seriously... if you read what I'm writing...

Never Back Down may or may not be entertaining... I never saw it... I'm not (never did either) say a movie like that should win Best Picture Oscar. I'm saying that I... me... personally... Jay... not anyone else here... would rather make a movie that the fans found SO entertaining that THEY voted for it best picture... hence Viewer Choice Awards.

So... I'd rather make a Die Hard once than make a thousand American Beauty flicks. (Before you put words into my mouth... lemme stop you... I like American Beauty.)

So, again to recap...

You have no idea what I'm saying... and you think it's stupid that I would rather win a Fan Award than an Academy Award.

I wish someone else would chime in here... am I crazy or is this guy putting words in my mouth and criticizing me because I think FANS are more important than the Academy.

[JT3294]

JT is making my brain melt.

Yeah he's having the same effect on me.

[SnoBorderZero]

Haha.. wow... I never said... it's seriously pointless.

I... WOULD... RATHER... HAVE... A... MOVIE... THAT... THE... FANS... LIKE... MORE... THAN... WHAT... THE... ACADEMY... LIKES...

You said: "People meaning the average moviegoer? People who don't have a clue what they're talking about?"

THOSE fans. You're saying people don't have a clue about what they like? Ok bud.

Seriously... if you read what I'm writing...

Never Back Down may or may not be entertaining... I never saw it... I'm not (never did either) say a movie like that should win Best Picture Oscar. I'm saying that I... me... personally... Jay... not anyone else here... would rather make a movie that the fans found SO entertaining that THEY voted for it best picture... hence Viewer Choice Awards.

So... I'd rather make a Die Hard once than make a thousand American Beauty flicks. (Before you put words into my mouth... lemme stop you... I like American Beauty.)

So, again to recap...

You have no idea what I'm saying... and you think it's stupid that I would rather win a Fan Award than an Academy Award.

I wish someone else would chime in here... am I crazy or is this guy putting words in my mouth and criticizing me because I think FANS are more important than the Academy.

I didn't say the average moviegoer didn't know what they like, I'm saying they like garbage. If they voted, if it was up to them, No Country for Old Men wouldn't be nominated. Transformers would win every award when it's a mediocre movie, and it'd once again prove that those "award" shows are meaningless because the average moviegoer has no clue.

I love Die Hard, and I haven't seen American Beauty. But if you're saying you'd rather make 1 entertaining movie over 1,000 Best Picture material movies then you have the mentality of a Michael Bay type director, who receives no acclaim or praise because they don't care about quality, they care about how many things blow up.

And no one is rushing in to help you because you're stupid to think that people who think Transformers is a better movie than No Country for Old Men's opinions are valid in any way. Who cares who pays for the ticket? Because I buy a CD I have a right to vote for the Grammys? Because I watch a show I have a right to decide on Emmys? I'd rather not see Hannah Montana voted over The Office by the fans, which is pretty much the equivalent of Transformers over No Country for Old Men.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

Films that get nominated are usually ones that pass the rules. Plain and simple. I forgot that one rule that was passed long time ago. It had something to do with Sci Fi films. Wasn't Empire Strikes Back disqualified that one year for Best Pic. because it was a Sci Film?

[SnoBorderZero]

There are no rules, no automatic disqualifications. Empire Strikes Back not winning in 1980 is the least of worries considering both The Elephant Man and Raging Bull were the real snubs, and Ordinary People isn't bad either. I'm sorry Star Wars never won. Boo hoo. There are no rules or anything you speak of, no conspiracies. Have you seen the movies I just listed? The Elephant Man>Empire Strikes Back.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

I saw Elephant Man. It was a good film but imo not better than Empire. Besides I don't think Empire was nominated due to...you know.

[SnoBorderZero]

I think Empire Strikes Back is the best sci-fi movie ever made, even over 2001. That being said The Elephant Man has a gut-wrenching story that never gives into sappy elements that a movie like say Crash does. It has brilliant performances from its actors as well as some of the best cinematography (courtesy of David Lynch) that I've ever seen in a movie, and Raging Bull can boast that as well. I really don't see how Empire was snubbed in any way. It's beaten in every aspect by the other 3 movies aside from SFX. It loses in story, acting, cinematography, costumes, director, picture, etc. 1980 was a great movie year. It wasn't nominated because it wasn't. There are no rules anywhere that say it was disqualified. Shouldn't you be more worried on what a joke Star Wars has become?

[Ser Ty Of Ross]

How can any person or group of people correctly say what movie is best? You can't please all the people all of the time.

And yet when I use similar arguments about music I'm roasted......

I'm calling shenanigans ;)

Anyways as for the other two of you.... why can't you just agree that the two awards are totally different entities with totally different criteria and that really prefering one over the other is just a matter of personal choice.

After all if you like a bad movie is it really bad?

[JBond]

Films that get nominated are usually ones that pass the rules. Plain and simple. I forgot that one rule that was passed long time ago. It had something to do with Sci Fi films. Wasn't Empire Strikes Back disqualified that one year for Best Pic. because it was a Sci Film?

I've banned people for less trolling than you've been allowed.

[JBond]

And yet when I use similar arguments about music I'm roasted......

I'm calling shenanigans ;)

Once again (years later), when I said The Beatles were the greatest band ever, I meant...

great
–adjective

7. important; highly significant or consequential: the great issues in American history.

[Ser Ty Of Ross]

Once again (years later), when I said The Beatles were the greatest band ever, I meant...

great
–adjective

7. important; highly significant or consequential: the great issues in American history.

Twas a joke Jibbman

(and actually I refering to that argument in that list thread not anything you sai dparticularly)

[JT3294]

I didn't say the average moviegoer didn't know what they like, I'm saying they like garbage. If they voted, if it was up to them, No Country for Old Men wouldn't be nominated. Transformers would win every award when it's a mediocre movie, and it'd once again prove that those "award" shows are meaningless because the average moviegoer has no clue.

I love Die Hard, and I haven't seen American Beauty. But if you're saying you'd rather make 1 entertaining movie over 1,000 Best Picture material movies then you have the mentality of a Michael Bay type director, who receives no acclaim or praise because they don't care about quality, they care about how many things blow up.

And no one is rushing in to help you because you're stupid to think that people who think Transformers is a better movie than No Country for Old Men's opinions are valid in any way. Who cares who pays for the ticket? Because I buy a CD I have a right to vote for the Grammys? Because I watch a show I have a right to decide on Emmys? I'd rather not see Hannah Montana voted over The Office by the fans, which is pretty much the equivalent of Transformers over No Country for Old Men.

1st: Who are you to say what kind of movie I should make. You're opinion is no more important than the people you are saying like garbage. I would have more FUN filming Transformers, and it would show in my work, than if I was filming NCfOM (although I like the movie, I'd rather not have made it). You're a judgemental prick who probably picks on people smaller than you in your school and you pick fights and talk tough over the internet. Grow up...

2nd: So you're putting words in my mouth? When did I EVER?!?!?!?! say that Transformers was better than NCfOM? I dislike Transformers and love NCfOM.

3rd: The movie industry cares because if WE don't pay for the tickets and buy those CD's... there is no industry, you idiot.

4th: I NEVER said that regular people should vote for the Grammys and Oscars... you AGAIN put those words in my mouth. I said that BOTH Oscars and Viewer awards are equally important because the Pros get their say and the Viewers get their say. Viewers Choice are not USELESS...

It'd be like the Senate being the ONLY ones to vote for the President. We get no say so cause, what, they're the experts? ***** that. We get OUR say so and, even though we may have different opinions and we may be what douchebags like you consider "wrong", we STILL get our voice heard.

Same thing with Viewer awards.

So get off your high horse kid. You aren't better than me because you're an Oscar whore and I'm a Viewer whore. We're both whores to the same industry. You have the patterns of a serious sociopath... trust me I work with them everyday... get help.

[SnoBorderZero]

1st: You are the one saying the kind of movie you'd make. You spelled it out, not me. You would have fun, okay. That's great. I'd have fun making a movie too. And you'd rather not make a Best Picture winner? WTF... So you'd rather make mediocre blockbusters than good movies? Haha, whatever floats your boat. Who is talking tough? You're the one getting all upset.

2nd: I never said that. I'm using it as an example.

3rd: Duh obviously. I'm not talking about ticket sales, I'm saying why would the industry feel inclined to have ticket buyers vote? That's just stupid.

4th: The viewer's choice in terms of voting on awards is pointless. I don't care what people who thought Transformers was the best movie of the year think because they have no clue what they're talking about.

You're comparing the MTV movie awards to politics, sorry doesn't work that way. Once again, you come on here and say I'm wrong, but no one has rushed in to agree with you because what you're saying is you'd rather make a mediocre movie like Transformers over 1,000 No Country for Old Mens. That right there tells it all.

[JT3294]

You are a moron. Nothing you said relates to anything I said. You TOTALLY skimmed the facts and selectively chose what you want to hear.

Stay is school kid.

EDIT: Ok now that there is a lull at work... let me finish.

I never said you were wrong... I said you were an idiot for judging me based on a preference. That's like saying I'm stupid for prefering Pepsi over Coke. Or Pepperoni pizza over Cheese. It's idiotic and self absorbed to say that.

Yes I'm getting worked up because you started on the personal attacks. That pisses me off when you don't even know me or anything about me.

OH... and the reason that no one is coming to back me up.. is the same reason why no one is validating your "facts"... this thread has turned into a retarded arguement between you and I now, tossing out needless personal attacks... super job.

I quit, this thread is now pointless. I'm gonna go talk to the "mature" people on the Election thread. :p

[IanTheCool]

That's like saying I'm stupid for prefering Pepsi over Coke. O

You like Pepsi over Coke?? Man, that is stupid.

[JT3294]

You like Pepsi over Coke?? Man, that is stupid.

i know... ain't it though... :omg:

[Doomsday]

Alright, back on topic.....

Clint Eastwood has a couple movies coming out this year that are supposed to be Oscar contenders. Anyone have any problems with Eastwood?

[JT3294]

F**k Eastwood lol... Westwood ROCKS!!!

Seriously though, Eastwood is a great director, his stuff just ain't my cup-o-tea. I think he takes himself a little too seriously lol. Kinda an older, MUCH more talented Chuck Norris.

I want another Coen movie though... on the oscar worthy topic... what movies are they working on?

[Matrix_Fan]

Thc Coen's new flick, Burn After Reading, is coming out September 12th. I hear a lot of Oscar buzz about that one. Then again, there's always Oscar buzz on a Coen brothers movie.

As for films that should get oscar nominations, I would like to see Speed Racer go for Effects, Sound, Editing, Art Direction, and Music, but since the beating it got critically and commercially, I don't see it happening. Oh well. That's alright though. I'm really done arguing about the flick to people.

[JT3294]

Thc Cohen's new flick, Burn After Reading, is coming out September 12th. I hear a lot of Oscar buzz about that one. Then again, there's always Oscar buzz on a Cohen brothers movie.

As for films that should get oscar nominations, I would like to see Speed Racer go for Effects, Sound, Editing, Art Direction, and Music, but since the beating it got critically and commercially, I don't see it happening. Oh well. That's alright though. I'm really done arguing about the flick to people.

THAT'S Coen?!?! I am dying to see that. Now I REALLY wanna see it.

[EthanEverett]

"And we all know how much the Academy hates comedy."

and anything related to smiling and happiness and sensibility and anything unbias.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

You like Pepsi over Coke?? Man, that is stupid.

Big Red is better than both ;) .

[SnoBorderZero]

You are a moron. Nothing you said relates to anything I said. You TOTALLY skimmed the facts and selectively chose what you want to hear.

Stay is school kid.

EDIT: Ok now that there is a lull at work... let me finish.

I never said you were wrong... I said you were an idiot for judging me based on a preference. That's like saying I'm stupid for prefering Pepsi over Coke. Or Pepperoni pizza over Cheese. It's idiotic and self absorbed to say that.

Yes I'm getting worked up because you started on the personal attacks. That pisses me off when you don't even know me or anything about me.

OH... and the reason that no one is coming to back me up.. is the same reason why no one is validating your "facts"... this thread has turned into a retarded arguement between you and I now, tossing out needless personal attacks... super job.

I quit, this thread is now pointless. I'm gonna go talk to the "mature" people on the Election thread. :p
I love it when people try to tell you they're dumb when they go and write "Stay is school kid". Genius, how do you do it?

Like I said, it takes 0 skill to conjure up a movie like Transformers, none at all. It's movies that you detest to making that are. Yes I am way too immature for you, I mean what was I thinking? I'm glad you clarified how much smarter you are or I would've had to waste my time again talking to someone who likes mediocre movies over quality. Thanks. :D

[King_of_Skid_Row]

Actually, I think it would be easier to make a film like No Country For Old Men over something like Transformers. Small budget and you don't have to go through all the designing and CGI work.

[Andrey83]

Actually, I think it would be easier to make a film like No Country For Old Men over something like Transformers. Small budget and you don't have to go through all the designing and CGI work.

Yeah, writing a good script is something everyone can do...

Seriously mate... get a clue.

[unity768]

In Bruges for its excellent screenplay

[Moviegoer]

Tropic Thunder has been released, so summer season is pretty much over. Yea, summer season technically ends on Labor Day but with the exception of Hamlet 2 there's really nothing interesting left.

So, anyway, the next season is the winter/awards season. That's where we'll see all the Oscar nominees & winners. However...this summer season, even though it has a few Oscar worthy stuff, is usually ignored cause it's a summer movie. So...aside from Heath Ledger who or what should get nominated but probably won't?

I say Robert Downey, Jr. for Tropic Thunder. http://www.comingsoon.net/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

No offense to your personal taste and I agree with you that comedies should be recognized more often by the academy than they do but I did not think that Downey Jr's performance in Tropic Thunder was Oscar worthy at all. I could see more of an argument being made for his performance in Iron Man than Tropic Thunder. In Iron Man his character had more dimensions than in TT. TT he was good but so was Tom Cruise and neither should or will get a nod. There have been much better comedic performances that were over looked.

[SnoBorderZero]

Actually, I think it would be easier to make a film like No Country For Old Men over something like Transformers. Small budget and you don't have to go through all the designing and CGI work.

Did you seriously just say that? Wow. ANYONE can make a mediocre movie like Transformers. Small budget= more work because you have limitations, it's not even close.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

What's so hard? You just have to connect with the actors and make them act good. Nothing big or major to pull off like some stunt. That's why those films get finished quick.

[SnoBorderZero]

What's so hard? You just have to connect with the actors and make them act good. Nothing big or major to pull off like some stunt. That's why those films get finished quick.

That's incredibly stupid. You just have to connect with the actors and make them act good? Yeah, easy as that, no problem. We all know pulling off an explosion is way harder than creating a suspenseful film based on performances. That's why Michael Bay is so superior to the Coens Bros. I mean everyone knows an explosion takes so much in depth thinking.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

I don't think you get it. Coens are better than Bay. But the filming process is easier for them than for Bay. Bay is doing the hard stuff and making an average film. Coens are chilling, connecting with the actors, and making art. Simple.

Filming something like No Country is easier and in the end turns out to be better. My kind of film making.

[Matrix_Fan]

An explosion does take a lot of planning. But that's beside the point.

Both films are difficult to make in their own ways. Transformers, with it's complicated CGI and massive amounts of pyrotechnics. And No Country For Old Men, with it's great performances, slightly low budget, and overall screenplay/story.

The overall product is debatable, but equal amounts of effort are put into them.

Now Uwe Boll and those "Movie" Movies. Those are the one where no effort is put into them.

[SnoBorderZero]

How is making an excellent movie ever easier than making a mediocre one? You can't just chill and connect and make art. That doesn't add up. They used brilliant cinematography, used hidden themes, had excellent pacing, everything was superb. How is that simple? Bay did nothing but emphasize that Megan Fox is hot. For me the biggest positive of Transformers was Shia, that's how mediocre the whole thing was. He did nothing "hard". He had a larger crew/budget and blew things up, used a stupid overused storyline, and the whole thing had that "I've already seen this before" mentality. There is no way what the Coen Bros. did was easy in any way.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

^Sometimes easier can lead to good things.

[Matrix_Fan]

How is making an excellent movie ever easier than making a mediocre one? You can't just chill and connect and make art. That doesn't add up. They used brilliant cinematography, used hidden themes, had excellent pacing, everything was superb. How is that simple? There is no way what the Coen Bros. did was easy in any way.

Exactly. The Coen's didn't go, "Yeah, we're brilliant." and sleepwalked through the whole production. They gave it their all, and an excellent movie came from it.

Sadly, I know a few people who think that they make the best things ever, when they aren't even that good.

Anyway, I still stand by my opinion that both NCFOM and TF both are equally difficult to make, just in different ways.

Also, why are we even comparing the two anyways?

[SnoBorderZero]

One is pure entertainment, the other is a quality film which the average moviegoer fails to see.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

One is pure entertainment, the other is a quality film which the average moviegoer fails to see.

Well in the case for NCFO, it has to do with that they didn't open it up in enough theatres and when they did they reduced its show times. If they had given it more times and open it up everywhere from the get go, it would've gotten a lot more viewers because it is a true thought provoking thriller( and those actually do good). I know it would've done well because when it finally came to my theatre and had only something like three showings, my showing was packed. The movie I think could've been a winter BO smash if it had a bigger release and more showings.

[Matrix_Fan]

The film made over 74 million dollars. As a film of that genre, I'd say that's a pretty huge sum of money.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

I think it would've made even more than that with a bigger release. I'm guessing 100 million or 200 million.

[Matrix_Fan]

I don't think so.

A film like this only appeals to the more sophisticated moviegoers. Making 200 million would seem quite odd.

[SnoBorderZero]

Yeah the #s are right around where movies like that usually end up. People flock to bad summer movies, Hancock made millions and yet In Bruges made little. The average moviegoer is stupid. Yes, STUPID.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

I don't even think In Bruges is in my theatre. These films would do well if they weren't so picky with releases. Pan's Labrynth would've raked in the dough too if it got a big release. But it didn't. When it finally arrived at my theatre( my theatre is very large. 26 screens), it only had one showing. One showing! And guess what, the showing was packed. Almost entirely sold out. That tells you that with more showings, it would've done very well.

Some of these films would make over a 100 mil. to 200 mil. if they got bigger releases. No Country definitely would've easily passed the 100 mil. mark if given a bigger release from the get go. Even though most hated the ending, most can't get enough of Chigurh.

[SnoBorderZero]

People who hate the ending don't get it. There was a reason it ended that way and it plays into the whole theme that this is no country for old men, that the old ways of doing things won't get anything done. People are dumbed down by Michael Bay movies and lose their ability to react to an ending that isn't a Hollywood one. That's why an average moviegoer's vote is completely irrelevant, they're too stupid to comprehend something that isn't an explosion or Will Smith.

[JBond]

You know, some people caught the theme and they just weren't moved by it. That's why some movies get overrated, because there aren't explosions so it must be deep and profound.

[King_of_Skid_Row]

People who hate the ending don't get it. There was a reason it ended that way and it plays into the whole theme that this is no country for old men, that the old ways of doing things won't get anything done. People are dumbed down by Michael Bay movies and lose their ability to react to an ending that isn't a Hollywood one. That's why an average moviegoer's vote is completely irrelevant, they're too stupid to comprehend something that isn't an explosion or Will Smith.

You know, not everyone is a Michael Bay fan.

[Matrix_Fan]

I started a Michael Bay fan club, but then I realized I was the only member.

Luckily for me, The Coen's fan club is much bigger.

[JT3294]

Yeah the #s are right around where movies like that usually end up. People flock to bad summer movies, Hancock made millions and yet In Bruges made little. The average moviegoer is stupid. Yes, STUPID.

It's hilarious a guy with a #1 Ahnuld Fan title preaches about QUALITY in movies. You're opinion is NOT the only one that matters kid. Movies are like music, everyone has a different taste in what they find entertaining.

In Bruges was in a VERY VERY VERY limited release (if it even was). Hancock was in MASS release. So it's not these "stupid" moviegoers that are to blame. It's the studios and marketing that these movies get.

You don't listen to anyone else's point of view, you just judge them and call them stupid because you don't agree and have no basis for your argument. That's immature as hell.

[JT3294]

I love it when people try to tell you they're dumb when they go and write "Stay is school kid". Genius, how do you do it?

Like I said, it takes 0 skill to conjure up a movie like Transformers, none at all. It's movies that you detest to making that are. Yes I am way too immature for you, I mean what was I thinking? I'm glad you clarified how much smarter you are or I would've had to waste my time again talking to someone who likes mediocre movies over quality. Thanks. :D

HAhaha... I'm sorry, I just found this response... you truly are stupid aren't you lol.

0 Skill to make a movie like Transformers? Wow... just wow is all I can think of. I'm speechless for the 1st time in quite a while.

Next you're gonna say that you're more qualified than Bay and that you are on par with the Coen's, simply because... you think you are...

Hahaha.

[sshuttari]

I just find it insulting that someone said Cohen's bro's did something that anyone can do by making "No Country for Old Men" and that it's an easy film to make.

Are you freaking retarted...

people bash Bay for making action movies. But that s*** is not easy to make. And he is basically the only action director I know who if he didn't want to make an action movie he could do really well as an low budget film director. Look at "The Island" the first half of that film is pretty much brilliant.

No you cannot do what Bay nor Cohen's do there both really good at what they do, and don't act you can do a better job, or just as good of a job.

[JT3294]

I just find it insulting that someone said Cohen's bro's did something that anyone can do by making "No Country for Old Men" and that it's an easy film to make.

Are you freaking retarted...

people bash Bay for making action movies. But that s*** is not easy to make. And he is basically the only action director I know who if he didn't want to make an action movie he could do really well as an low budget film director. Look at "The Island" the first half of that film is pretty much brilliant.

No you cannot do what Bay nor Cohen's do there both really good at what they do, and don't act you can do a better job, or just as good of a job.

I agree... Bay doesn't make "garbage". Just because you don't like that genre or his movies... doesn't make them "garbage".

Transformers was not my favorite Bay film. But he does do great, blow em up, mindles action movies.

And that's what I'm saying... the experience for me as a director would be more fun blowing s**t up and whatnot. I'd be scared s**tless to work on something like the Coen's do, cause they are immensely talented and I'm pretty sure I'd bomb out without an EXCELLENT crew to back me up.

It takes just as much talent and skill to do a unique action piece as it does to do a thought provoking thriller... just skill in different areas.

[SnoBorderZero]

HAhaha... I'm sorry, I just found this response... you truly are stupid aren't you lol.

0 Skill to make a movie like Transformers? Wow... just wow is all I can think of. I'm speechless for the 1st time in quite a while.

Next you're gonna say that you're more qualified than Bay and that you are on par with the Coen's, simply because... you think you are...

Hahaha.

Speechless? Man would that be nice. You think it's smart to have lower standards than Michael Bay? Wow, way to shoot for the bottom rung on the ladder. Oh well, that's pretty much where your intelligence lies anyways. Please tell me what about Transformers makes it any different from any other summer blockbuster.

[SnoBorderZero]

I just find it insulting that someone said Cohen's bro's did something that anyone can do by making "No Country for Old Men" and that it's an easy film to make.

Are you freaking retarted...

people bash Bay for making action movies. But that s*** is not easy to make. And he is basically the only action director I know who if he didn't want to make an action movie he could do really well as an low budget film director. Look at "The Island" the first half of that film is pretty much brilliant.

No you cannot do what Bay nor Cohen's do there both really good at what they do, and don't act you can do a better job, or just as good of a job.
Haha wow the first half of The Island was brilliant? In its way of ripping off 1984 and Logan's Run? Yeah so original. Not to mention the entire movie was a disaster. What on earth shows that Michael Bay could do anything low budget? Nothing about him shows anything pointing to that.

You're right I can't do what Bay does, I'm incapable of making a movie devoid of any IQ or plot. I'm pretty happy about that, that I understand the concepts of film and that there's more to it than summer blockbuster eye candy. Just because you two can't make a better movie doesn't mean I can't.

[JT3294]

Speechless? Man would that be nice. You think it's smart to have lower standards than Michael Bay? Wow, way to shoot for the bottom rung on the ladder. Oh well, that's pretty much where your intelligence lies anyways. Please tell me what about Transformers makes it any different from any other summer blockbuster.

For the sake of the topic of this thread... I'm just going to ignore everything you say.

Because I feel 50% responsible for this madness... I wasn't clear on what I meant originally and that left room for this guy to hop in and act like he knows better than everyone else... allow me to clarify my original statement.

I, personally, don't really care for the Oscars. They serve their purpose, but I'd rather win a Viewer Choice award because it'd mean more to me to know that the Viewers appreciated my work. The Oscars do a great job of marking historical cinematic milestones, but for me, entertainment is just more important.

I think it'd be fun to work on the big blockbuster movies. I like very well done movies such as No Country For Old Men, but it's just not the kind of production I'd like to participate in.

I think that there can be Quality Oscar winners and Quality Non Oscar winners and I'd rather be there to make... and more often than not view... the Quality Non Oscar winners because I find them to be a better escape from reality and just all around more fun.

[SnoBorderZero]

Don't ignore me, I really am interested in hearing how Transformers is so amazingly unique from other blockbusters and how it took such amazing skill and vision to create, how only the genius of Michael Bay could conjure it up.

[JT3294]

You're an idiot...

I'm sorry I know I said I wouldn't... but that last comment urged me and it had to be said... now, seriously... I'm done.

[SnoBorderZero]

Ah come on. I really do wanna hear how talented Michael Bay is.

[sshuttari]

Haha wow the first half of The Island was brilliant? In its way of ripping off 1984 and Logan's Run? Yeah so original. Not to mention the entire movie was a disaster. What on earth shows that Michael Bay could do anything low budget? Nothing about him shows anything pointing to that.

You're right I can't do what Bay does, I'm incapable of making a movie devoid of any IQ or plot. I'm pretty happy about that, that I understand the concepts of film and that there's more to it than summer blockbuster eye candy. Just because you two can't make a better movie doesn't mean I can't.

How many director's out there that can actually make an entertaining action film over and over again.

Not a lot, granted I don't like a lot of Bay's films, but just because I found "The Island" a good action film and that I actually enjoyed the first half of the Island a lot doesn't mean your right and I'm wrong. So it didn't appeal to you. Isn't that what's film is all about? People have different opinions about which film is better and which is worst.

Everyone on this forum will have a different top 10 and bottom 10. And no one's will be exact.

You need to get that, just because you don't like Bay and think he's garbage doesn't mean everyone needs to hate him too.

Your right he ain't no Scorcese or Kubrick, but he's not the worst director. He makes good action flick and when I go to see his films that's what I want and that's what I get.

I'll enjoy something like that once in a while and forget about em a day later.

But what I really enjoy are movies like 2001, Unforgiven, Blade Runner, Kingdom of Heaven (director's cut) and be able to watch em over and over again because of the themes, ideas, and the brilliant dialogue and acting.

You can enjoy all kinds of different films for different reasons.

[JT3294]

How many director's out there that can actually make an entertaining action film over and over again.

Not a lot, granted I don't like a lot of Bay's films, but just because I found "The Island" a good action film and that I actually enjoyed the first half of the Island a lot doesn't mean your right and I'm wrong. So it didn't appeal to you. Isn't that what's film is all about? People have different opinions about which film is better and which is worst.

Everyone on this forum will have a different top 10 and bottom 10. And no one's will be exact.

You need to get that, just because you don't like Bay and think he's garbage doesn't mean everyone needs to hate him too.

Your right he ain't no Scorcese or Kubrick, but he's not the worst director. He makes good action flick and when I go to see his films that's what I want and that's what I get.

I'll enjoy something like that once in a while and forget about em a day later.

But what I really enjoy are movies like 2001, Unforgiven, Blade Runner, Kingdom of Heaven (director's cut) and be able to watch em over and over again because of the themes, ideas, and the brilliant dialogue and acting.

You can enjoy all kinds of different films for different reasons.

You see what I've been up against man? lol. It's a nightmare.

[sshuttari]

You see what I've been up against man? lol. It's a nightmare.

I just find the stupidity in that comment really ridiculous that if you like Transformers you are dumb.

No, not really... I have friends and family who are doctor's lawyers and engineers who are very intelligent and have worked really hard to get where they are in life and they also have a family to support. They get a chance to get to the movies maybe once or twice in that year. One of them said they are really glad they got to see Transformers instead of anything else that year. They loved it... did I call them unintelligent or stupid for watching that? No!

Because they grew up not watching TV or movies like some of us they had better things to do in there life.

For them it's great they got to see that instead of something artsy and small budgeted like No Country for Old Men or Juno.

Everyone is different...

[JT3294]

Yeah... I work for the Sheriff's Office and I get enough drama and realism every day. I want to escape to a fantasy land and see robots blow s**t up and caped heroes jump off rooftops.

I'll rent the dramas later.

Like I said, I enjoy them and appreciate them... I just enjoy them less than other more entertaining flicks.

[SnoBorderZero]

Please point out where I stated if you like Transformers then you're dumb. I talked about how the average moviegoer will flock to movies regardless of pitiful reviews, Hancock is a prime example. I don't consider myself a music expert, but if a song is junk why listen to it? If you only get to go to the movies so often, shouldn't you watch something really good? I also didn't say Transformers was a bad movie, it's a mediocre 6 or 7, it just goes back to the original argument that a viewers choice show where they only elect big budget movies over quality films as the winners are farce.

[JT3294]

Please point out where I stated if you like Transformers then you're dumb. I talked about how the average moviegoer will flock to movies regardless of pitiful reviews, Hancock is a prime example. I don't consider myself a music expert, but if a song is junk why listen to it? If you only get to go to the movies so often, shouldn't you watch something really good? I also didn't say Transformers was a bad movie, it's a mediocre 6 or 7, it just goes back to the original argument that a viewers choice show where they only elect big budget movies over quality films as the winners are farce.

WOW! If that's not the greatest and most outstanding piece of backpedaling I've EVER seen... hold please while I quote your words.

[SnoBorderZero]

I'm dying in anticipation for the "You're dumb if you liked Transformers" quote. Don't get that mixed up with me just straight calling you dumb.

[JT3294]

I love Die Hard, and I haven't seen American Beauty. But if you're saying you'd rather make 1 entertaining movie over 1,000 Best Picture material movies then you have the mentality of a Michael Bay type director, who receives no acclaim or praise because they don't care about quality, they care about how many things blow up.

And no one is rushing in to help you because you're stupid to think that people who think Transformers is a better movie than No Country for Old Men's opinions are valid in any way. Who cares who pays for the ticket? Because I buy a CD I have a right to vote for the Grammys? Because I watch a show I have a right to decide on Emmys? I'd rather not see Hannah Montana voted over The Office by the fans, which is pretty much the equivalent of Transformers over No Country for Old Men.

Here we go... here's a nice example of where you said Transformer fans are lesser than you. You may use the word "mediocre" but your make it sound as though it's the worst movie ever.

[SnoBorderZero]

Mediocre=worst movie ever? And I said people who think Transformers is better than No Country for Old Men shouldn't vote. Where do I say that they're dumb for liking it? Are they dumb for thinking it's better? Oh definitely. But that's not what you're attempting (and failing) to quote me on.

LOL. Keep the quotes rolling, you're only somehow making yourself look stupider. I love how you had all this evidence and yet you have nothing.

[JT3294]

You're right I can't do what Bay does, I'm incapable of making a movie devoid of any IQ or plot. I'm pretty happy about that, that I understand the concepts of film and that there's more to it than summer blockbuster eye candy. Just because you two can't make a better movie doesn't mean I can't.

Here you say that... because you like NCfOM more than you like Michael Bay... you could make a better movie than us. You also say that he has no IQ or Plot yada yada yada.

So again.. you think we're dumb because we'd rather make/see a summer flick... than you are because you'd rather see NCfOM.

[JT3294]

Don't ignore me, I really am interested in hearing how Transformers is so amazingly unique from other blockbusters and how it took such amazing skill and vision to create, how only the genius of Michael Bay could conjure it up.

More sarcasm that shows how little you think of Transformers. If you thought it was mediocre... this wouldn't have been what you were thinking.

[SnoBorderZero]

You both wrote that I'm incapable of doing what Michael Bay does, simply because I haven't made a movie yet. That's stupid. I guess Spielberg always had to hope he could be as good as Ed Wood as a kid. Why should I shoot for such low expectations? There are great summer movies, Michael Bay just hasn't made one since The Rock (which I really like a lot). Are you forgetting The Island, Armageddon, and Pearl Harbor?

[JT3294]

Oh I get it. You'd be proud to win an MTV award over an Oscar. It's stupid, but I get it.

Oh... here's another. Sorry it's taking me so long.. I have inmates kicking a door and distracting me. Gee what I wouldn't give to be away from this drama and watching Pirates of the Caribbean right now..

[Matrix_Fan]

Is this scuffle still going on? Jesus Christ Bananas.

[SnoBorderZero]

More sarcasm that shows how little you think of Transformers. If you thought it was mediocre... this wouldn't have been what you were thinking.

I don't think highly of it, no. But just because I think it's generic doesn't mean I think it's bad. You're taking quotes and just inferring everything, you're just taking them and trying to believe they're what you want plainly written across them. Yawn.

[JT3294]

You both wrote that I'm incapable of doing what Michael Bay does, simply because I haven't made a movie yet. That's stupid. I guess Spielberg always had to hope he could be as good as Ed Wood as a kid. Why should I shoot for such low expectations? There are great summer movies, Michael Bay just hasn't made one since The Rock (which I really like a lot). Are you forgetting The Island, Armageddon, and Pearl Harbor?

Here you are judging people's taste in movies.

I like Armageddon as a strickly action packed, Doomsday film.

I like the Island as well.

Pearl Harbor is one of my LEAST favorites... however the little action that was in it I liked.

[SnoBorderZero]

And you judge my tastes as well. You like action over "artsy" movies, you'd rather make entertainment over "best picture material". It all kind of comes back around to you as well, you just like to believe you're the one being attacked and not throwing anything around as well.

[JT3294]

Once again, you come on here and say I'm wrong, but no one has rushed in to agree with you because what you're saying is you'd rather make a mediocre movie like Transformers over 1,000 No Country for Old Mens. That right there tells it all.

Here... I never... EVER said you were wrong about anything (so do ME the favor of quoting where I did as I have done for you) and you are manufacturing facts to support yourself.

*Yawn*

[JT3294]

And you judge my tastes as well. You like action over "artsy" movies, you'd rather make entertainment over "best picture material". It all kind of comes back around to you as well, you just like to believe you're the one being attacked and not throwing anything around as well.

I never judged your tastes... quote me ONE TIME where I did.

I already clarified my misuse of words that started this whole mess... what's your excuse.

Except for when I've called you an idiot and a moron and a host of other "Pet Names"... I've been on the defensive. YOUR preferences have NEVER been called into question... mine consistantly have...

Again... I challenge you... quote me.

[SnoBorderZero]

Yeah but I'm saying... who watches Annie Hall? Who has in the last 30 years? come on.


Well can I use this to prove that you're stupid?

[JT3294]

Well can I use this to prove that you're stupid?

No... because I wasn't judging your tastes. I was asking... comparable to Star Wars... how many people have seen Annie Hall. It is however an excellent example of how you have no argument.

Nice try though Bud.

EDIT: And to prevent all possiblity of some feeble distortion of my words... quote the WHOLE thing next time. I was clearly arguing that I thought Star Wars was better and Best Pictureier than Annie Hall... NEVER<<<<=====>>>>EVER did I say that Annie Hall was a bad movie.

[SnoBorderZero]

Hmmm well that's s a mighty dose of changing words around. The quote was that in general, who watches Annie Hall? You said no one. Of course less people watch Annie Hall than Star Wars, but how does that merit its worth? More people have probably seen Twister than The Seventh Seal, that doesn't mean anything.

[JT3294]

It has no merit on the films worth and I never said that it did... you are an excellent manipulator of a persons words though my friend.

We all gotta be good at something... glad you found your niche.

OH and if you read the EDIT to that last post... you'll see I beat you to the punch and called you on the manipulation...

[SnoBorderZero]

But I'm using your technique of inferring everything, just like mediocre must mean worst movie ever. I love how hypocritical you are, it only adds to your stupidity which was already hard to imagine adding any more to. And how do I have no argument? Every time I ask you to tell me how Tranformers is different from other summer movies you say "wow, you're an idiot". Is it maybe because I'm right and you're a dumbass? Yeah, I think so.

[JT3294]

But I'm using your technique of inferring everything, just like mediocre must mean worst movie ever. I love how hypocritical you are, it only adds to your stupidity which was already hard to imagine adding any more to. And how do I have no argument? Every time I ask you to tell me how Tranformers is different from other summer movies you say "wow, you're an idiot". Is it maybe because I'm right and you're a dumbass? Yeah, I think so.

No, it's already been established that you're the idiot because you don't argue points. You just criticize others.

I never said that you thought it was the worst movie ever... that was sshuttari (although I happen to agree with him that you DO hate that movie), I was pointing out the fact that you hound that movie like it is the worst movie ever. So I wasn't "inferring" anything... I was showing what you said in your quote... YOU "inferred"/manipulated MY quote by saying that I said Annie Hall was bad... I didn't say that.

Your quotes and the one that you quoted me on are TOTALLY different and if you'd read the whole quote instead of just the quoted part, you'd see that (maybe).

Now you see that I'm not the only one that sees that you are simply a judgmental, immature little child so you're doing everything in your power to discredit me. Other people have seen it now... you're arguments mean nothing...

[SnoBorderZero]

Other people? You speak for the whole community? Really? Do you get a mod status for that high rank? Wow. Where are these others? I only see you and seeing as you're an idiot, I could care less. This is coming from the person who said they'd rather make a Transformers-type movie over No Country for Old Men. HAH!

I don't hate that movie, I hate the idea that people who vote for Transformers as movie of the year for a silly award show hold any merit. I said I gave it a 7, it's an entertaining movie but one that's just whatever. A bad movie? That would be The Happening, or The Incredible Hulk, or Meet the Spartans. So yes, you are doing a good amount of inferring as well as a bit of self-indulged bsing on the idea that you speak for everyone.

[JT3294]

Other people? You speak for the whole community? Really? Do you get a mod status for that high rank? Wow. Where are these others? I only see you and seeing as you're an idiot, I could care less. This is coming from the person who said they'd rather make a Transformers-type movie over No Country for Old Men. HAH!

I don't hate that movie, I hate the idea that people who vote for Transformers as movie of the year for a silly award show hold any merit. I said I gave it a 7, it's an entertaining movie but one that's just whatever. A bad movie? That would be The Happening, or The Incredible Hulk, or Meet the Spartans. So yes, you are doing a good amount of inferring as well as a bit of self-indulged bsing on the idea that you speak for everyone.

Actually... it seemed to me that sshuttari was mildly offended by your inconsiderate judgment on people. How people who like those movies don't know s**t.

I never said "everyone" as you... again... implied. I said others... meaning sshuttari. (Maybe I'm wrong but he seemed a little offended)

Just reread the last sentence of that 1st paragraph you wrote... why do you feel it's necessary to try to offend me? That's ignorant

[SnoBorderZero]

When you say "other people" usually it would mean more than one person. I didn't say there was anything wrong with liking the movie, would you read my ****ing posts? I said it's crazy to think that people who thought it was THE BEST MOVIE OF THE YEAR have any merit voting on movies. If you liked it, great, whatever, I found it to be entertaining even if it wasn't original, that's why I gave it a 7. I am talking about the original argument, where I could care less what MTV voters think is the best movie of the year because they always vote for a big summer blockbuster.

[JT3294]

When you say "other people" usually it would mean more than one person. I didn't say there was anything wrong with liking the movie, would you read my ****ing posts? I said it's crazy to think that people who thought it was THE BEST MOVIE OF THE YEAR have any merit voting on movies. If you liked it, great, whatever, I found it to be entertaining even if it wasn't original, that's why I gave it a 7. I am talking about the original argument, where I could care less what MTV voters think is the best movie of the year because they always vote for a big summer blockbuster.

You have specifically called me "stupid" for prefering to make or watch a movie like Transformers rather than an Oscar winner... I ain't the only one that saw it.

YOu have any idea how juvenile that is? How sad it is that, because you are on the internet, you think you're tough by calling someone's tastes stupid? Kudos there Princess.

[Dracula]

Wow, I've been missing a great argument. My two cents:

1. Making a blockbuster does not take more skill, it just takes more work, as in more hours.

2. Working hard on somthing without value is not a good use of work time. It might take more work to graffiti a massive wall, the result will not necessarily be of more value than a small Picasso painting, though in the hands of someone like Diego Rivera it might be.

3. A wide release will not automaticly mean a movie will make more money, in fact a platformed release increases the revenue of certain movies exponentaily. I can explain in more detail if anyone cares.

4. I probably dislike Transformers even more than both of you

5. Neither of you are idiots, though you are both wrong about that particular movie being passable.

6. Having bad taste in movies does not make someone an idiot, but it does mean they have bad taste in movies.

7. Being wrong about one movie does not mean they will automaticly be wrong about others.

8. Oscars are more important than the people's choice award, though being on a lot of critics top ten lists is probably more worthwhile.

9. There are a number of directors who can "actually make an entertaining action film over and over again," Michael bay is not one of them.

10. The Coens could easily make Transformers if they wanted to and it would have probably turned out better, Michael Bay could never make No Country for Old Men and had it turn out anywhere near as good.

11. There's nothing wrong with escapism, but some escapism (Transformers) is vastly inferior to other escapism (The Dark Knight), ergo some escapism is bad.

12. Annie Hall may not have been seen by as many people as Star Wars, but theoreticly Star Wars hasn't been seen by as many people as Titanic, which says enough to me about the value of popularity.

[JT3294]

Wow, I've been missing a great argument. My two cents:

1. Making a blockbuster does not take more skill, it just takes more work, as in more hours.

2. Working hard on somthing without value is not a good use of work time. It might take more work to graffiti a massive wall, the result will not necessarily be of more value than a small Picasso painting, though in the hands of someone like Diego Rivera it might be.

3. A wide release will not automaticly mean a movie will make more money, in fact a platformed release increases the revenue of certain movies exponentaily. I can explain in more detail if anyone cares.

4. I probably dislike Transformers even more than both of you

5. Neither of you are idiots, though you are both wrong about that particular movie being passable.

6. Having bad taste in movies does not make someone an idiot, but it does mean they have bad taste in movies.

7. Being wrong about one movie does not mean they will automaticly be wrong about others.

8. Oscars are more important than the people's choice award, though being on a lot of critics top ten lists is probably more worthwhile.

9. There are a number of directors who can "actually make an entertaining action film over and over again," Michael bay is not one of them.

10. The Coens could easily make Transformers if they wanted to and it would have probably turned out better, Michael Bay could never make No Country for Old Men and had it turn out anywhere near as good.

11. There's nothing wrong with escapism, but some escapism (Transformers) is vastly inferior to other escapism (The Dark Knight), ergo some escapism is bad.

12. Annie Hall may not have been seen by as many people as Star Wars, but theoreticly Star Wars hasn't been seen by as many people as Titanic, which says enough to me about the value of popularity.

See, have no problem with any of that lol, just so long as I'm not being called stupid for prefering to make or see one movie over the other.

I do however kinda disagree with #10: The Coens are extraordinarily talented writers/directors... Bay is a talented Choreographer/Director... but they excel in different aspects...

Could bay have done No Country? Yeah but the dialogue would have blown and it would have been a good action movie.

Could the Coens have done Transformers? Sure, but the fight scenes and explosions would have sucked but it would have been a dramatically/suspensefully written movie.

The Coens, Nolans, Aronofsky... those to me, are more like Poets and Artists. Their work is beautiful and thought provoking (or disturbing in Aronofsky's case sometimes).

Bay, Spielberg, Bruckheimer, Lucas... those to me, are more like entertainers and magicians. Their work is mesmirizing in a different way... fun, exciting and fast paced.

I'm a fan of the entertainer style personally. I love the Artistics that I mentioned, but to me, I am more entertained by the others.

[Dracula]

See, have no problem with any of that lol, just so long as I'm not being called stupid for prefering to make or see one movie over the other.

I do however kinda disagree with #10: The Coens are extraordinarily talented writers/directors... Bay is a talented Choreographer/Director... but they excel in different aspects...

Could bay have done No Country? Yeah but the dialogue would have blown and it would have been a good action movie.

Could the Coens have done Transformers? Sure, but the fight scenes and explosions would have sucked but it would have been a dramatically/suspensefully written movie.

The Coens, Nolans, Aronofsky... those to me, are more like Poets and Artists. Their work is beautiful and thought provoking (or disturbing in Aronofsky's case sometimes).

Bay, Spielberg, Bruckheimer, Lucas... those to me, are more like entertainers and magicians. Their work is mesmirizing in a different way... fun, exciting and fast paced.

I'm a fan of the entertainer style personally. I love the Artistics that I mentioned, but to me, I am more entertained by the others.

Nolan is most deffinately able to be "beautiful and thought provoking", but he also made two Batman movies which both had great explosians.

Spielberg has been an "entertainers and magician", but he also made Schindler's List, Munich, and Saving Private Ryan which would deffinately be "beautiful and thought provoking." Michael bay has never made a movie that wasn't just a nunch of gratuitous violence, and when he tried (Pearl Harbor) it was offensively bad.

[JT3294]

Nolan is most deffinately able to be "beautiful and thought provoking", but he also made two Batman movies which both had great explosians.

Spielberg has been an "entertainers and magician", but he also made Schindler's List, Munich, and Saving Private Ryan which would deffinately be "beautiful and thought provoking." Michael bay has never made a movie that wasn't just a nunch of gratuitous violence, and when he tried (Pearl Harbor) it was offensively bad.

Nolan is an incredible exception... one that can pull off a movie like Memento, Prestige and 2 Batman movies in the same stretch. That's why Nolan is one of my favs.

Spielberg... aside from Schindler's List... most all of his movies have been fast paced and exciting to a degree. SPR and Munich had their fair share of explosions and gunfights. I think Spielberg has the ABILITY to do both... but he seems to prefer booms and bangs.

Bay has never tried anything else. Pearl Harbor was a BIT on the lite side for Bay, but still had dogfights and bombings and whatnot.

The same argument can be made for the Coens, we can't judge their ability to blow s**t up with a flare because they've never done it.

They can definately write the s**t out of a script though and tell a fascinating story lol.

[Dracula]

Spielberg... aside from Schindler's List... most all of his movies have been fast paced and exciting to a degree. SPR and Munich had their fair share of explosions and gunfights. I think Spielberg has the ABILITY to do both... but he seems to prefer booms and bangs.



SPR and Munich may have violence, but it's used for completely different reasons. They are no more action movies than No Country For Old Men. You're right that he likes the bangs and the booms, but he's proven on many occasions that he's capable of doing more, and that's all I ever set out to prove.

When Bay tried to make a serious war movie it came out rediculous.

[JT3294]

SPR and Munich may have violence, but it's used for completely different reasons. They are no more action movies than No Country For Old Men. You're right that he likes the bangs and the booms, but he's proven on many occasions that he's capable of doing more, and that's all I ever set out to prove.

When Bay tried to make a serious war movie it came out rediculous.

Yeah, I won't argue that Pearl Harbor sucked balls. But I'm not sure that Bay is 100% to blame. The writing/story was miserable... and I hate Ben Asshat with a passion (he sucks and I think he's THE most overrated actor in the industry)... so it was an all around shoddy movie.

I feel the same way about Pearl Harbor as I do about Titanic.. nix the mushy gushy stuff, and the action would have been acceptable.

It goes with the question... is a Quarterback/Coach supposed to take the blame for the teams loss?

Now if he Wrote/Directed And STARRED in it... he'd have no excuse lol.

[SnoBorderZero]

I think Bay does deserve the recoil for his movies. Why is a movie bad? Sure, the screenplay could've been spotty, the actors (I totally agree on Ben Affleck, he is so AWFUL!!) might not have been very good, but the director's job is to oversee all of this and make the necessary changes. When a movie is great you praise the director. When it's bad he has to take the blame too. I'll praise Spielberg for all the great movies he's made and also totally blame him for what a mess A.I. was.

[JT3294]

I think Bay does deserve the recoil for his movies. Why is a movie bad? Sure, the screenplay could've been spotty, the actors (I totally agree on Ben Affleck, he is so AWFUL!!) might not have been very good, but the director's job is to oversee all of this and make the necessary changes. When a movie is great you praise the director. When it's bad he has to take the blame too. I'll praise Spielberg for all the great movies he's made and also totally blame him for what a mess A.I. was.

Fair enough, I'll accept that lol.

But I credit the same thing with James Cameron... I like him except for Titanic (which, like Pearl Harbor, COULD have been good minus the sappy love s**t)

I read a review somewhere that said "Pearl Harbor is like Titanic squeezed into the first 2 hours and Tora Tora Tora squeezed into the last hour." And Ebert said that, "'Pearl Harbor' is a two-hour movie squeezed into three hours, about how on Dec. 7, 1941, the Japanese staged a surprise attack on an American love triangle." <--- LMAO!

[sshuttari]

Ben Affleck does have the skill in my opinion to act good. See "Hollywood Land" he actually did a great job I thought.

Plus the man does have a talent for directing I thought "Gone Baby Gone" was pretty much brilliant from beginning to end.

His first time directing and he pulled that off, is very rare these days.

[Dracula]

Yeah, I won't argue that Pearl Harbor sucked balls. But I'm not sure that Bay is 100% to blame. The writing/story was miserable... and I hate Ben Asshat with a passion (he sucks and I think he's THE most overrated actor in the industry)... so it was an all around shoddy movie.

I feel the same way about Pearl Harbor as I do about Titanic.. nix the mushy gushy s