Darth Plaugus the Wise

[NightLifeMike]

I dont know if this is already a thread or what not but i just wanted to throw it out there.

In the awesome opera house scene when Palpatine is talking about Darth Plaugus and he said that he could form the mediclorians that create life, and he looks over at Anakin, anyone catch that?

Anakin being created by one of them?

if you going to jump on me with some stupid remark dont post.

[Cloud Buster]

Yeah, this has been discussed a lot in some other threads, and there are a lot of different opinions. No one knows *for sure* despite what they may say or how they word it, it's all speculation, but it's good speculation.

[darthspielberg]

I was so impressed. I wasn't sure when I heard about the story of Darth Plaugus a few months back, but i only heard the name and that he was killed by his apprentice. The whole Midiclohrian thing was amazing.

[Karma Dog]

There is no telling how much of his story is true....he tells Anakin wants he wants to hear about Padme and what he nees to hear to turn to the darkside. but yah, its all open for speculation... fun stuff.

[Triligors film]

I think it was Darth Plaugeus who created Anakin, because how could Palpatine have gotten Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to go to Tatooine? It seems to me most likely that Palpatine found out about Anakin's origins, realizing that his old master had created Anakin before he died..... possibly to replace him. This is why Palpatine took Anakin under his wing so to speak, he knew how powerful- from the beggining- that Anakin would become. Only question now is, is Anakin adopted? Or did Shimi possibly know about how her "son" was created?

[Cloud Buster]

I think it was Darth Plaugeus who created Anakin, because how could Palpatine have gotten Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to go to Tatooine? It seems to me most likely that Palpatine found out about Anakin's origins, realizing that his old master had created Anakin before he died..... possibly to replace him. This is why Palpatine took Anakin under his wing so to speak, he knew how powerful- from the beggining- that Anakin would become. Only question now is, is Anakin adopted? Or did Shimi possibly know about how her "son" was created?

First off, Palpatine didn send Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to Tatooine, there's no way he could have planned that. When running the Trade Federation blockade, their hyperdrive sprung a leak, and they chose to go to Tatooine for the repairs. Palpatine couldn't have planned that not only would they attempt to leave Naboo, but get hit in such a way that they'd lose their shields, the hyperdrive would be hit and start to leak, then the shields would be repaired so they could continue on.

I suppose one could say that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were guided to Tatooine by "the will of the force" or something, but I'm not so sure about that.

Second, I realize that Palpatine probably didn't create Anakin, because if he had, he would have known he was on Tatooine and would already be watching him or seeking him out.

Anakin wasn't adopted, Shimi says she carried him and gave birth to him. Qui-Gon theorizes Anakin was conceived by the Midichlorians, and Sidious mentions that Plageius had this power. So, I think it's quite possible that Plageius created Anakin. As we known, Plageius was killed by Sidious. Sidious may have known that his master had created a life, but didn't know who or where, and perhaps was searching for him, realizing who Anakin was by the end of TPM.

[Jason Krueger]

Another thing to ponder is, that Plaugus taught his apprentice everything he knew, which led to his death. What if his apprentice was Palpatine, and it was Palpatine who used the force to concieve Anakin. We don't know if Shmi was on Tatooine at the time she found out she was pregnant. She could have been somebody who worked for Palp, whatever his old job was, and he decided to test his new powers on her. And the place she might have felt that the planet she lived on was not right for her child. So she boarded a ship to Tatooine, and when the crew found her, they sold her to Watto. Now Palpatine doesn't know where she went too, so now he's pretty much frustrated. Now fast forward to the finale scene in episode 1. When Palp says to Anakin. "...we'll be watching your progress, with great interest." Palpatine sensed powerfull force residing in Anakin, just like Qui-Gon, and he must of knew that this was the boy he created nine years ago. So he keeps a watch him, seeing how he progresses through time.

[Sock-Man]

I think if Plageus or Sidious did create Anakin through the midichlorians, it was more of a random thing, him being on tatooine. I find it hard to believe Palps would choose such an obscure place to raise his most loyal henchman, unless this was to purposely keep him away from the Jedi order.
I think it more likely that he created some kind of disturbance in the force which created a lifeform somewhere in the galaxy unbeknownst to him. The force led qui gon to Anakin, as he stated in TPM and Palpatine, sensing his powers in TPM, knows this is the boy and keeps an eye on him.

[Cloud Buster]

Another thing to ponder is, that Plaugus taught his apprentice everything he knew, which led to his death. What if his apprentice was Palpatine, and it was Palpatine who used the force to concieve Anakin. We don't know if Shmi was on Tatooine at the time she found out she was pregnant. She could have been somebody who worked for Palp, whatever his old job was, and he decided to test his new powers on her. And the place she might have felt that the planet she lived on was not right for her child. So she boarded a ship to Tatooine, and when the crew found her, they sold her to Watto. Now Palpatine doesn't know where she went too, so now he's pretty much frustrated. Now fast forward to the finale scene in episode 1. When Palp says to Anakin. "...we'll be watching your progress, with great interest." Palpatine sensed powerfull force residing in Anakin, just like Qui-Gon, and he must of knew that this was the boy he created nine years ago. So he keeps a watch him, seeing how he progresses through time.

No way, aside from the obvious (which I'll get to in a sec), if Palpatine had created Anakin, he would have been watching over him on Tattoine. When he sent Darth Maul in TPM, he would also have had concern for Anakin.

Furthermore, Shimi was a slave. Slavery is outlawed in the Republic, so Palpatine, being a politician, wouldn't have had Shimi as a slave. (Anakin also says that both he and his mother previously belonged to Gardola the Hutt). Also remember, slaves can't escape, or they blow up (they have a chip installed in them).

[Jason Krueger]

Furthermore, Shimi was a slave. Slavery is outlawed in the Republic, so Palpatine, being a politician, wouldn't have had Shimi as a slave. (Anakin also says that both he and his mother previously belonged to Gardola the Hutt). Also remember, slaves can't escape, or they blow up (they have a chip installed in them).

But does it say she was a slave all her life? If Palpatine has always been a politician and don't know how long he had been a Senator of Naboo. For all we know Shmi could of been working with the senate on Naboo. Palpatine tests his new found powers on her and so on. As for the hutt thing and Maul, yeah I forgot about Gordola, but Maul I'll have to think about.

[Cloud Buster]

But does it say she was a slave all her life? If Palpatine has always been a politician and don't know how long he had been a Senator of Naboo. For all we know Shmi could of been working with the senate on Naboo. Palpatine tests his new found powers on her and so on. As for the hutt thing and Maul, yeah I forgot about Gordola, but Maul I'll have to think about.

Okay, so we can't *prove* that she wasn't an intern in Palpatine's office on Naboo, but seriously, I think that's just too much of a reach beyond reason. It's like saying, "For all we know Yoda trained Plagieus, and Yoda used to be a Sith, because they never said he wasn't."

[halo7]

And Boss-Nas is actually a shaved wookie.

[Jason Krueger]

Ok found something that disproves somewhat of my theory. Found these on a site which gives the timeline of the <a href="star%20wars" onmouseover="window.status='star wars'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">star wars</a> universe. Don't how reliable it is though.

41 BBY- Anakin Skywalker is born to a slave named Shmi Skywalker.

39 BBY - Shmi and Anakin Skywalker come to live on Tatooine when they are purchased by Gardulla the Hutt. However, the Hutt ultimately loses her prize to a junk dealer named Watto.

Ok so that blows my theory about her working in the senate on Naboo. But Palpatine is a politician, and politicians have to travel. So he could have possibly traveled to one of the outer rim planets, where Shmi was, and the regular, got new powers needed to try them out, used it on her. And we don't know how many Apprentices he has had before Maul, so lets just say the one he had then, if not Maul, is placed on that planet to watch over Shmi and the child when it is born, or to kidnap the child when its born to be brough to Palpatine to be raised as a sith in secrecy. But Shmi gets help from somebody who doesn't believe in slavery, and helps her locate the chip. So she escapes onto a ship heading for tatooine, right under the apprentice's nose. He goes and tells Palpatine, who in anger kills him, enter <a href="darth%20maul" onmouseover="window.status='Darth Maul'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">Darth Maul</a>. Shmi escaped as a stow away, but is found by a crew and when they get there, sell her back into slavery.

EDIT: this is the site with the time line. http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/D/Da/Dates_in_Star_Wars.htm

[RedVader 2004]

Could Darth Plageus have been Anakins father and Sidius was angry that he may have been going soft. Also maybe Sidius was afraid that Plageus son could be the only sith lord to be able to bring balance to the force. Think for one minute. Mace Windu and the other jedi were being drawn into a dark war. That caused there values to change. Maybe to bring balance some good jedi and bad siths had to die. For the Siths evil was poisoning the jedi all but Yoda and Obi Wan. I however am certain the force did not mean for the Younglings to be slaughtered.

[HeadHunter]

My head hurts from reading all this :P

[Inferno]

I got the feeling that Plaugus lived a long long time ago. Considering he is referred to as a "legend", I believe it was. It was his power of the force that let him live for a long time. This he taught to Palpatine who also lived a long time ago, and because of his powers lived a very long life too, but only just before the events in TPM did he start to appear as "Palpatine" realising that the way to unlimited power was through taking control of the Senate.

Palpatine suggests Plaugus could create life, but never said Plaugus created Anakin. Moreover, the fact that he says this power was taught to his student suggests that Palpatine created Anakin.

My question is, did Palpatine know he created Anakin? Did he know he created a life, but didn't know where in the galaxy? Or did he create it completely by accident as a result of not even him realising the extent of his powers?

[darthspielberg]

The power of the force is strong. He may have meet Shmi in business and thought she was perfect...

I want this to be true, mainly because it would be the first I AM YOUR FATHER moment since ESB.

[insaneMoViEgoer]

maybe Palpatine was in his room doing his business. when he finished his midiclohrians created anakin. just a theory:P

[Sparta*]

Palpatine said that Plagueis taught him everything....but at the end he says "to cheat death is a secret that only one has mastered, but if we work together I know we can find the secret" Or whatever he said...so he obviosuly isn't as good as Plagueis. So if anyone created Anakin, I really think it was Plagueis.

[Inferno]

Palpatine said that Plagueis taught him everything....but at the end he says "to cheat death is a secret that only one has mastered, but if we work together I know we can find the secret" Or whatever he said...so he obviosuly isn't as good as Plagueis. So if anyone created Anakin, I really think it was Plagueis.

Perhaps he IS Plaugus!

[Karma Dog]

There is no secret. He's bull*****ting him. ummmm... hey go kill all these people then I'll help you. He tells Anakin what he wants to hear.

[ip_guru]

Palpatine said that Plagueis taught him everything....but at the end he says "to cheat death is a secret that only one has mastered, but if we work together I know we can find the secret" Or whatever he said...so he obviosuly isn't as good as Plagueis. So if anyone created Anakin, I really think it was Plagueis.

Also, I read the above quote as him saying that only one has mastered, implying that it was NOT Plagus who did so. So he knows right then and there that the only one who has mastered this is Qui-Gon.

That was my take anyway. On first glance we think he is talking about his Master, but I think it is pretty clear that he is talking about Qui-Gon.

Just an opinion. :)

[woodywoodpecker]

Also, I read the above quote as him saying that only one has mastered, implying that it was NOT Plagus who did so. So he knows right then and there that the only one who has mastered this is Qui-Gon.

That was my take anyway. On first glance we think he is talking about his Master, but I think it is pretty clear that he is talking about Qui-Gon.

Just an opinion. :)


I agree. me and a friend debated this after the movie. I believe he was talking about Qui-Gon. Also there must be some reason Lucas has the "midiclohrians" in EPI why else would he mention it again in EP3. I do believe Anakin was created by something other than umm.. normal.. baby makin skills.

[Fanible]

I suppose that could be filled in that the reason Anakin appers at the end of ROTJ, is that Sidious and Anakin, or just Anakin himself, while being Vader learned the secret that Qui-Gon managed and thusly was able to become one with the force when he died.

[Sparta*]

Thats pretty much the only theory that makes sense Fanible.

Also, I really don't think Qui-Gon knew how to create life. I thought that was moreso a darkside power. If anyone created life in Shmi to make Anakin it had to be Plagueis....but how, and why i dont really know.

[insaneMoViEgoer]

I agree. me and a friend debated this after the movie. I believe he was talking about Qui-Gon. Also there must be some reason Lucas has the "midiclohrians" in EPI why else would he mention it again in EP3. I do believe Anakin was created by something other than umm.. normal.. baby makin skills.
that wouldnt make sense. it would just show that a jedi has the same, if not more, power then a sith.

[woodywoodpecker]

well if thats the case, he should have resembled what he looked like in the suit then shouldn't he?? if he actually developed the power while in the suit and not before, whouldn't he take the form as an old burnt up anakin and not the young one now in the OT movies?? I'm still confused about this change in the OT DVD's :(

and Fanible .. thats how I took it in the movie just like you said. That Anakin did learn this power that Qui-Gon learned. Look at the what Sidious said in the opera scene about how Plagus could create life but couldn't save his own. Then when Anakin became Vader scene he was talking about only one has learnt the power and together Vader & Sidious will learn it. So that means that neither plagus or sidious knew how to do this. but then that leaves the door open to an EP7 because maybe Anakin/Vader and Sidious finially learned how to do this inbetween EP4 & 6. Because Obi-won and Yoda both learned this as well.. So someone had to teach Anakin/Vader..

.... ok now I'm done. :sleepy:

[Sparta*]

Yeah... I think Palpatine was BS'ing Anakin about being able to create life, and to save life, because Vader couldn't save himself from dying, and neither could Palpatine..and they had a good 30 years to learn it together, but they didn't.

[woodywoodpecker]

that wouldnt make sense. it would just show that a jedi has the same, if not more, power then a sith.

well I tought technically that the sith were more powerful. because they knew both sides of the force. good & bad

[Sparta*]

no, both sides are evenly matched.....that was shown when Yoda was fighting Palpatine and Palpatine unleashes his full dark side lightning on Yoda, and he absorbs it, then it erupts and they both fall. That shows that not one side is more powerful then the other, because Yoda and Palpatine are both the respective masters of their sides of the force

[woodywoodpecker]

Yeah... I think Palpatine was BS'ing Anakin about being able to create life, and to save life, because Vader couldn't save himself from dying, and neither could Palpatine..and they had a good 30 years to learn it together, but they didn't.

well really isn't becoming one with the force and dying two different things. Wouldn't one have to die to become one with the force?? :confused:

so realllly palpatine wouldn't save himself. he would just die then reappear as one with the force. as did anakin,yoda,obi-won,qui-gon. They all died and then became one. I guess.. :confused:

[woodywoodpecker]

no, both sides are evenly matched.....that was shown when Yoda was fighting Palpatine and Palpatine unleashes his full dark side lightning on Yoda, and he absorbs it, then it erupts and they both fall. That shows that not one side is more powerful then the other, because Yoda and Palpatine are both the respective masters of their sides of the force

I don't know. I thought one would be more powerful than the other because the sith know both sides(darkside/lightside?) as opposed to the jedi knowing only one .

[Sparta*]

Do the sith truly know the power of the lightside though? I really don't think so. Its either one or the other.

[woodywoodpecker]

well anakin would. because he was a jedi first. I would think.