Letters of Tolkien

[Drogobaggins]

Has anyone else read the Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien? I am reading t right now, and it is quite interesting.

If he was alive when the movies were being made, it makes me wonder what he would have thought. He certainly would have been vocal and possibly involved with the script. It also makes me think that a movie about the Inlklings (the club in which CS Lewis was also a member) would make a great movie.

[Kurufinwe]

Yes I have read them, and use them mostly as reference material.

I on one hand think Tolkien would have liked the a lot of the architectural, but would have disagreed on the treatment of the character and the story itself.

[Anglachel_Sword]

Haven´t read all the letters, but they are quite interesting.

Yeap, JRR Tolkien would be definitely disagree with some changes in PJ-LOTR movies , specially the treatment some characters have:( :(
Also think, if he were alive, he should had been involved in the script writting, so movies would be more faithful

[Necross]

Yes, but in truth JRR was actually fond of the idea of making the books into a movie. He just wanted someone to do it right. I don't remember her name but their was a Tolkien Editor (thats the name of her job believe it or not). Who said that when she first heard about movies she was very scepticle because they were so important to her that she couldn't see how they could be done in a way that pleased her, but what Peter Jackson has done with the films is capture the very heart and soul of the books. Its LOTR in a different media and it brings the spirit of the books to life.

[Mr. Frodo]

Originally posted by Necross
Yes, but in truth JRR was actually fond of the idea of making the books into a movie. He just wanted someone to do it right. I don't remember her name but their was a Tolkien Editor (thats the name of her job believe it or not). Who said that when she first heard about movies she was very scepticle because they were so important to her that she couldn't see how they could be done in a way that pleased her, but what Peter Jackson has done with the films is capture the very heart and soul of the books. Its LOTR in a different media and it brings the spirit of the books to life.

yeah she's on one of the ROTK dvd extras

[Necross]

Indeed, the part about it being a different media was spoken by a different guy who was a Tolkien expert, I think if they can see the heart and soul of these movies is good enough to honor Tolkien, we should too.

[Kurufinwe]

I’m sure he would have liked the idea, but not to the changes of almost every character in the book.
He would probably not have minded Isildur killing Sauron instead of Gil-Galad and Elendil, but on the other hand Tolkien was a perfectionist, and would probably know have agreed with neither Aragorns “I don’t want to be king” attitude, nor a Frodo who would rather run then hide…

I’m not saying he would have liked the move, I just don’t think so…

[Turin Turambar]

You have to realize that the titles of the films were not "J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings". They were just "The Lord of the Rings." It's one little New Zealand film crew's interpretation of a an epic novel. They are allowed creative liberties. That's why I love both the book and the movies because they are--in my mind--two separate entities, both telling an amazing story. Tolkien was very upset in the Letters when they made a TV drama about it. I've never seen that drama and I bet it's sitting in the Indiana Jones archives next to the Ark somewhere, but he might have a different opinion of Jackson's interpretation.

[Anglachel_Sword]

Indeed, Tolkien would be very upset, PJ LOTR is not exactly what the books are...they are not as the books, just a PJ interretation of facts and that´s not nice to any author.
Appreciation of books makes you realize about this, and see movies just as a different thing

[fattybolger]

Originally posted by Turin Turambar
You have to realize that the titles of the films were not "J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings". They were just "The Lord of the Rings." It's one little New Zealand film crew's interpretation of a an epic novel. They are allowed creative liberties. That's why I love both the book and the movies because they are--in my mind--two separate entities, both telling an amazing story. Tolkien was very upset in the Letters when they made a TV drama about it. I've never seen that drama and I bet it's sitting in the Indiana Jones archives next to the Ark somewhere, but he might have a different opinion of Jackson's interpretation.

A point that we fans should never forget...the films are adaptations, remarkable in their faithfulness but variant according to PJ's vision of the story...he enhanced the prominent myth of our age...very much in the tradition in which Tolkein was steeped :)
Film is such a different medium than the written word that it lends itself to different emphasis and embellishments...

[Anglachel_Sword]

Indeed, that´s why authors dislikes movies *based* on their works :D the main question of this thread. Tolkien would be upset with those movies. That´s the answer in this thread.

[fattybolger]

Originally posted by Anglachel_Sword
Indeed, that´s why authors dislikes movies *based* on their works :D the main question of this thread. Tolkien would be upset with those movies. That´s the answer in this thread.

IMHO, I haven't seen Tolkein in that light...he was involved with others who reworked ideas (Lewis with his Pilgrims Regress, for example)...if alive, he may have helped shape the films differently, but I can't see him "upset" by another who tried to be so faithful to the myth :)

[Brock Landers]

Yes, I've read the book. And I own right. Humphrey Carpenter and Chris Tolkien did a good job putting it together. Check out Carpenter's biography of Tolkien - it's great.

[Brandy]

Also think, if he were alive, he should had been involved in the script writting, so movies would be more faithful

You do realize that JRR Tolkien sold the film rights (for $10,000) to The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and would not have had any legal say on the development of any film based on his books? He had a choice between keeping 'Artistic Control' or selling his books for 'Cash' . . he chose to sell. Which indicates to me that he wanted someone else to write the script and create the film . . he had no desire to be involved.

(Tolkien Enterprises) The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit film rights are owned lock, stock, and barrel by Filmmaker/Producer mogul Saul Zaentz:

http://www.tolkien-ent.com/

[Necross]

Well there ya go. He knew changes would have been made and he wouldn't have any say. I have seen an interview which actually said, that Tolkien himself prefered cuts to changes. He even said that if he had to choose he would have removed Helm's Deep from the movies. I don't think Tolkien would have hated the films, I am sure he would have known PJ was trying to capture the spirit of them, which he did, there is no denying that.

As for changes in the main characters from the fellowship, the only one I see is Aragorn and its not huge. Aragorn in the book simply accepted his fate BEFORE the one in the movie, but the book Aragorn didn't like it anymore. There is a line he says to Eowyn, something along the lines of, "If I had my way, I would be back in the valley of Rivendell." He was of course speaking of spending his life with Arwen rather than becoming king.

Other things like Frodo running and hiding is not a change at all, he suggested hiding the ring once, and never again, Gimli being used as comic relief also was not a change, they simply used more of that comic relief which was needed. I have quotes from the book if you want proof. The only real changes to the characters are lines that were written for the movie and the occasional part when they were somewhere they never were in the book, like Aragorn falling from the cliff or Merry at the Black Gate.

[Kurufinwe]

I see is Aragorn and its not huge. Aragorn in the book simply accepted his fate BEFORE the one in the movie, but the book Aragorn didn't like it anymore.

So that’s not a huge change? In the books he were determent that he wanted too be king, and in the movie he constantly tried too flee from his destiny (and only accepted it when he heard Arwen would die if he did not)

Other things like Frodo running and hiding is not a change at all

Its not… Remember the scenes from Weathertop. In the movie, were he would much rather drop his sword on the ground and run, instead of taken up the fight…

At that moment Frodo threw himself forward on the ground, and he heard himself crying aloud: O Elbereth Gilthoniel! At the same time he struck at the feet of his enemy. A shrill cry rang out in the night; and he felt a pain like a dart of poison ice pierced his left shoulder. – A knife in the dark

Suddenly to his own surprise Frodo felt a hot wrath blaze up in his hart. ‘The Shire!’ he cried, and springing beside Boromir, he stopped, and stabbed with sting at the hideous foot. – The Bride of kazard-dum

Gimli being used as comic relief also was not a change

No he is now just saying stupid things at very emotional times in the movies, witch really tent to ruin the scene completely.

Not to forget Elrons completely lack of faith in Humans taken in consideration that his own brother was human. Not to mention that the closest thing to Bombadil is a tree…

[Necross]

You obviously didn't understand what I meant about Aragorn. In the book if you read the appendices he DID run away from his fate when he was younger and he had to learn to accept it. PJ wanted TO SHOW that in the movies and the only way to do it was to make it so Aragorn hadn't accepted his fate yet. Also Frodo on Weathertop was used to show the affect that the Nazgul have over people, its nitpicking to complain about it, and he did too fight during the Moria Mines battle, just because he didn't fling himself onto a troll doesn't mean he was running away. He took up the quest, simple as that, no one else was willing to. Bombadil would have been a waste of time in this film. You obviously don't get that film is a much different media than the books. If they had put the books on film directly the way they were written on the pages it would not have worked at all. Anyone with common sense could see that. Elrond's history with his brother is something they couldn't go into, wasting time showing Frodo go through the Old Forest and the Barrow Downs would have been to repeatative. Old Forest would equal Fanghorn on screen, people would have been going, "Didn't we see something like this in the last movie?" Same for the Barrow Wights and the Army of the Dead. I loved the books with all my heart but I won't try and crush the movies and all the hard work in them because a few things had to be changed in order to make them work! Get off your high horse!

I'm writing books myself, and if someone wanted to make them into movies, I would want to be involved, my books are going to have history like LOTR and if the director felt that he wanted to change something so he could include some of that history, I wouldn't mind, watch some special features and maybe you will learn something about the process PJ used. He didn't just go into this thinking he could changed anything he wanted to!

[Kurufinwe]

I was not trying to say the film is wrong... I was trying to show the deference between the book and the movie characters (and show why I think Tolkien would have disliked the movie). And yes Aragorn was running from his fate, but at the moment he stepped into Rivendell at LOTR he was determent that is was time to taken upon him to be king. And for me, I think that they PJ portrayed a lot of the characters really bad. As I said Tolkien was a perfectionist, and even though he sold the movie rights (to Bakshi LOTR) and saying film is a deferent media does not mean Tolkien would have liked.

watch some special features and maybe you will learn something about the process PJ used. He didn't just go into this thinking he could changed anything he wanted to!

Hey man, if you were offended it was not my point. I just don't think he would have liked it, and just tried to show how the characters in the book strayed from the once in the film... :)

And yes i know PJ had his resones, and couldn't make every one happy... but because the fans are happy doen't alwasy mean the auther is or would be.

[Necross]

Sorry if I overreacted but I have been dealing with people for nearly 4 years now lol. Anyway I believe Tolkien would have had a love/hate feeling towards the movies, I'm sure he would have disliked the changes and such but I believe he would realize what PJ was trying to do and even if Tolkien couldn't influence the movies I'm sure PJ would try and please him, and would want him to be happy. Like I said, I believe Tolkien would have seen the dedication and respect PJ has for LOTR.

[Drogobaggins]

Originally posted by Necross
Sorry if I overreacted but I have been dealing with people for nearly 4 years now lol. Anyway I believe Tolkien would have had a love/hate feeling towards the movies, I'm sure he would have disliked the changes and such but I believe he would realize what PJ was trying to do and even if Tolkien couldn't influence the movies I'm sure PJ would try and please him, and would want him to be happy. Like I said, I believe Tolkien would have seen the dedication and respect PJ has for LOTR.

After thinking about the issue, I believe you are right about the way PJ would have handled it. He did have the utmost respect for Tolkien's works. :applaud:

[The Moose]

i'm looking for a copy. anyony know who publishes them?

[Big_Daddy2]

I've yet to check...but I've went to Chapters, Coles Book, and haven't been to Wee Book Inn yet...they don't carry this book yet. They do however finally have the History of Middle Earth Books for a reasonable price.

Letters of Tolkien, is a book about his responses to various fan letters correct?

[Necross]

I'm not sure, Big....