How come Sauron is not invisible?

[KenM]

When Frodo, Isildur, and Gollum all put the ring on, they turn invisible. How come at the start of FOTR, Sauron is not invisible? he had the ring on, He should have been invisible.
I know for dramatic effect, we see him, but give me a logical reason why Sauron does not turn invisible when he puts the ring on.

[Andrey83]

hmm, dont know, but the ring is not the same before and after sauron is defeted. After he is defeted his life force is in the ring... More then this i cant answer for.

[pb32]

the ring only makes mortals invisible. sauron was a maiar spirit, so he was immortal. saruon put so much of his life force into the ring that his entire existence was dependent on it surviving, and if he was ever reunited with it, he would become more powerful than ever before. when he lost it, he could only remain in spirit form, but when the ring was destroyed, much of his life force was destroyed, and he could not ever return to power.

[Elessar504]

Remember he is The Lord of The Rings and he has the control of the One Ring and the others rings.

[Detori]

My understanding has always been that it doesn't turn those invisible who have the power to weild it. For example, Gandalf would stay visible, as would Galadriel had they worn it. It has no effect on Tom Bombadil because of this.

[Necross]

Exactly, everyone has basically already given the explanation

*sighs*

Guess I can't show off my vast knowledge of LOTR.

[Tar-Carion]

Originally posted by Detori
My understanding has always been that it doesn't turn those invisible who have the power to weild it. For example, Gandalf would stay visible, as would Galadriel had they worn it. It has no effect on Tom Bombadil because of this.

Thats true -- Tom actually puts the Ring on, doesn't he? And does not disapper. :) Also, Tom could see Frodo quite clearly when Frodo had the Ring on (and was invisible to everybody else).

Here's some supposition. :) I know that I read something about this, but I can't quite remmeber where. :D

The Ring seems to transfer it's wearer's "Plane of Existence" from the "Physical" to the "Spiritual" (or Shadow). Mortals can only be in one or the other, so they "disappear" from the physical world when wearing the Ring. The Nazgul (who are mortals) have pretty much permanently changed to the Shadow/Spiritual world. Immortals such as Maiar (Gandalf, Sauron, Saruman) and Valar exist in both planes simultaneously, so there's no "transfer" (and, hence, no "invisibility"). I think that Elves are similar (or maybe just the elves who had previously been in Valinor? Like Galadriel). But I'm not sure.

EDIT:

A point to make (if the above is true) is that someone wearing the Ring would not be invisible to Sauron, Gandalf et al. Nor to any other creature existing in the Shadow World. Such as the Nazgul. Or the Balrog.

[PsYkOoOoO]

I think,if Sauron wants to turn invisible,he can do it.

[Andrey83]

Well he kinda is psykooo. "he cannot yet take physical form". he is just spiritual... :)

[PsYkOoOoO]

Before he became an burning eyeball Andrey.

[Andrey83]

Hmmm..Doubt it.... He is like gandalf. He cant just turn invicible....

[PsYkOoOoO]

Gandalf didnt have the ONE RING.He did.And he created it,the single most powerful weapon in Middle Earth,unable to turn his own master invisible?I dont think so.I think Sauron is able to control the ring like how the ring can control him.

[Andrey83]

Nah...The ring was only powerful in meens of evil. I dont think he could just say "turn me invicible" and it did. Or I nearly know it isnt so... :)

[PsYkOoOoO]

I think that Sauron gave so much power to the ring itself that Sauron now depends on the ring to survive.Since his life is locked within the ring itself,he now depends on the ring.His amazing strength comes from the ring.So when he loses the ring,when being sliced off by Isildur,he explodes and diminished.He is no longer attached to the ring and as a result,he lost his source of life,and disappears.I read somewhere that different people will be able to obtain different amount of strength from the ring depending on the power they themselves have.Remember what Gandalf said.If he has the ring,then he will be able to wield a power to great and terrible to imagine.Which means,he will be able to control the power,just like Sauron did with the ring.

[Andrey83]

Hmmm...maybe :) I'm actually not sure right now. Lets ask Tar-C

[PsYkOoOoO]

Im probably right on this one.Haha.-Over Confidence-

[JBomb87]

After Sauron was defeated by the Last Alliance, his physical form was destroyed but not his spirit.

I think the spirit nature of Sauron gives the ring the power to make its carrier invisible.

But who knows the book has many interpretations, and mine is just one of them.

[Andrey83]

That was kinda wrong :) Not everything, but that second line.

Read Tar-Carion post. thats more close to it i think.

[Detori]

Sauron never had the ability to turn invisible- he did although for a long time have the ability to shape-shift. That ended once Numenor fell.

[Tar-Carion]

Originally posted by Detori
Sauron never had the ability to turn invisible- he did although for a long time have the ability to shape-shift. That ended once Numenor fell.

I don't think that this is quite true. In his early days, Sauron should have been able to exist and travel in an "uncloaked" form (ie, invisible). However, in such a form, he (nor any other Valar or Mair in such a form) could not do much of anything. Especially in the physical world. In order to do things in the physical world, any of the Valar or Maiar would have to incarnate themselves. Incarnation expended power, and exposed the angelic spirit to certain risks (like death of its incarnation).

In the fall of Numenor, Sauron's incarnation as Annatar was destroyed/killed. He was never able to again assume a fair form. This death also separated him physically from the Ring. Until Sauron could re-incarnate himself (in a different guise), he probably could not use the Ring.

It's possible that Sauron could have attempted to rest and regain enough strength to incarnate himslef in a fair form once again. But such as rest could have taken thousands of years. And he wanted to destroy Arnor & Gondor ASAP.

So ... With the Ring as a focal point, Sauron incarnates in a matter of a century. But in a terrible form. And that form is subsequently "killed" in the War of the Last Alliance. And the Ring is taken away.

[Andrey83]

Good post Tar-C! :)

[Tar-Carion]

Originally posted by Andrey83
Good post Tar-C! :)

Thanks, Andrey. :)