Shelob's Lair

[DangerMouse]

I can't wait for the DVD release so I can hear why they specifically changed this portion of the script from the book.

No really big complaint, but why did the decide to break up the Sam/Frodo bond by having Frodo go on alone?

I'm sure they wanted to try and show that the ring's hold on Frodo was getting stronger, but couldn't they have driven that home after the lair scene?

Thoughts anyone?

It didn't ruin the film for me at all. I'm just a bit confused as to why they decided to change that particular portion of the book in the film script.

[Lurtz_2000]

sam was actually going to go home???
knowing gollum's plans

[Spy-Of-Saruman]

Yes... Sam was on his way home until he found the Lembas that Gollum had threw over the edge so that Frodo would send Sam away... Sam knew Frodo was now in danger and went back

[Rogue]

I thought it was Gollum's plan to get Frodo in there to Shelob, have her kill him so he could take the ring. He turned Frodo against Sam and "sent Sam home" so he thought all he had to do was worry about Shelob getting rid of Frodo. Frodo told Sam to go home and we all know Sam would do anything Frodo told him to do..and I thought he planned to go home until he found the lembas?

Something like that..not an expert, could be wrong.

[Spy-Of-Saruman]

Same as what I thought

[DangerMouse]

I think they could've accomplished the same thing had they just shot it as written by Tolkien.

In the book, Gollum deliberatly gets the two of them lost so that Shelob can kill them both. All so Gollum can get the ring.

So why the split in the film?

I'm wondering if they felt the scene would've been creepier with 1 Hobbit instead of 2 taking on Shelob?

It should be an interesting explanation once the DVD comes out and they explain the script changes in the "From Story to Script" section.

[Spy-Of-Saruman]

I think they were trying to put over the fact that without Sam, the quest could not be fulfilled so by having Frodo go it alone.. we would think its certain doom and he can't escape Shelob or the Orcs that follow, and he wouldnt... Frodo is stung and thanks to Sam isnt "eaten" and then the Orcs come and again.. if not for Sam they would of got the ring so by making Sam go home and then return it shows how much of this quest depended on Sam, having Frodo without Sam just makes the quest seem way more hopeless...

One thing I loved in this scene was how it intercut with Sam climbing down the winding stair, falling.. seeing the lembas and look back up whilst the music builds up to an amazing crescendo and then we see Frodo back in Shelobs Lair and we hear that fast paced VERY scary music..

[Lurtz_2000]

those stairs were more like a cliff

[DangerMouse]

Shelob wasn't as "Bad" as I thought she was going to be.

I'm a bit aracnophobic, but for some reason Shelob really didn't bother me that much.

I do agree with another poster that thought her lair scenes should've been longer.

[Spy-Of-Saruman]

Totally, it was basically a vertical climb.... like climbing a ladder

[Spy-Of-Saruman]

Originally posted by DangerMouse
Shelob wasn't as "Bad" as I thought she was going to be.

I'm a bit aracnophobic, but for some reason Shelob really didn't bother me that much.

I do agree with another poster that thought her lair scenes should've been longer.

I would of liked it if she was introduced the same way as the book by a cluster of eyes slowly moving closer to Frodo then we could have Frodo illuminate the area with the Light of Erendil and then see the spider there in front of him...

Hopefully Shelob well get a better intro in the EE.. HOPEFULLY the cluster of eyes

[Lurtz_2000]

did you like how all that foam crap was coming out of his mouth?

[Rogue]

Well, if you were poisoned, would you not foam at the mouth too? ;)

[king_of_hetzer]

This is off topic, but did you know Tolkein seriously considered that the giant spider be named Hoolob instead of Shelob?

Ungoliant was once to be called Argoriant

[KenM]

I think the reason PJ separtes Sam from Frodo is to have a great movie moment when he shows up again.

[king_of_hetzer]

Show up?

[Lurtz_2000]

heroicly with sting in his hand... ready to fight shelob

[king_of_hetzer]

Up show, I see!

[Lurtz_2000]

wtf?

[king_of_hetzer]

FTW?!?!?

[Rogue]

Knock it off.

[king_of_hetzer]

WHOEVER DOESNT LIKE ME GETS EGGS SHOVED UP THEIR ASS

[Rogue]

Grow up and stop it or else.

[king_of_hetzer]

Im sorry! :'( IM CRYING WHOS ****RAG I NEED TO KNOW

[Lurtz_2000]

is roque a host?

[king_of_hetzer]

$ h i * rag


MAYBE SHE MEAN

[Satan]

Originally posted by king_of_hetzer
$ h i * rag


MAYBE SHE MEAN
What the hell got into you?

[Rogue]

I don't know but whatever it is needs to stop now.

[king_of_hetzer]

The answer to my sickness/condition is in my sig

[Lurtz_2000]

wtf man.. i thought he was a well known forum person

[king_of_hetzer]

I am well known. But for some reason.,.... i have eggs stuck up my *blank*

[Satan]

Originally posted by Lurtz_2000
wtf man.. i thought he was a well known forum person
Not really.

[Rogue]

Originally posted by Lurtz_2000
is roque a host?

Yes, I am a mod.

[Lurtz_2000]

ok well... i think he needs to have a sleep

[Rogue]

He's going to have a long one if he doesn't knock it off and grow up.

[Brock Landers]

Originally posted by Lurtz_2000
is roque a host?

Moderator and super foxy chick, to be exact ;)

[Rogue]

Back on topic. Shelob's Lair.

[Lurtz_2000]

yeah but are you a moderator for this forum person???

[Rogue]

I am a global (super) moderator meaning I moderate all forums alongside TyRoss and JBond (who is an administrator by title). Any questions/complaints may be addressed to us via pm.

[Mr.Matinee]

Personalyy I liked the sequence, but it wasn't really that scary to me. Everyone else in the theater must of been holding their breath,because I literally felt the air in the room be sucked into everyone's lungs.;)

[Satan]

Originally posted by Lurtz_2000
yeah but are you a moderator for this forum person???
She moderates the whole Coming Soon board, not just the LOTR forum

[Brock Landers]

Originally posted by Mr.Matinee
Personalyy I liked the sequence, but it wasn't really that scary to me. Everyone else in the theater must of been holding their breath,because I literally felt the air in the room be sucked into everyone's lungs.;)

More people were going "oh my god" in my theatre. The greatest moment though in when Shelob got Frodo with her stinger. Greatest audience reaction......EVER! ;)

[Rogue]

Originally posted by Mr.Matinee
Personalyy I liked the sequence, but it wasn't really that scary to me. Everyone else in the theater must of been holding their breath,because I literally felt the air in the room be sucked into everyone's lungs.;)

Pretty much..it scared me but the overall feeling for the whole sequence would be tense. Everyone was holding on to the arms of their seats..it was great. :)

[Lurtz_2000]

oh ok

[Lurtz_2000]

oh ok, who else does aswell?

[Lurtz_2000]

sorry i'm going off topic. i'll be good now

[Brock Landers]

You also triple-posted for no reason at all. EDIT BUTTON!

[Lurtz_2000]

sorry, yeah shelob is cool. back to normal now

[Brock Landers]

Originally posted by Lurtz_2000
sorry, yeah shelob is cool. back to normal now

Good. Shelob was FANTASTIC.

I wasn't really "afraid" of her, but I was pretty creeped out when she was stalking Frodo on the outside. And the Shelob's Stinger scene is one of the few times I've jumped in a movie this year. Actually, the only one I can think of.

[Lurtz_2000]

did it look fake at all when she was spinning him? i cant remember

[Cbars]

It didn't bother me too bad until they were outside and she snuck up on Frodo and was above him and we all knew what was coming.....I couldn't hardly stand the wait.

[Pwnst1k]

I think it was perfect that they split him up for the movie. Because it makes you lost hope for a second, that gollum really did win over frodo. Also, Frodo was more helpless by himself than with Sam.

[Cbars]

It makes me cringe just thinking of the part where she is RIGHT over him and he doesn't know it.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Lurtz_2000]

she was very quiet

[Cbars]

I know, that is partially what is the worst, spiders never make noise. They are all of a sudden just THERE.:shock:

[Brock Landers]

Goddamn that scene creeped me out. And the Stinger made me jump. Shelob was very well done. Although she coulda been more dark and bloated like the book described.

[Cbars]

I don't even care about the whole mithrail shirt issue, it was kind of low draped across his shoulders, that whole sequence was just too freaky for me.

[Brock Landers]

Originally posted by Cbars
I know, that is partially what is the worst, spiders never make noise. They are all of a sudden just THERE.:shock:

Like I said earlier, imagine being a little bug. Everyday you could possibly run in to a Shelob. ;)

[Rogue]

I was the only person that screamed during the Shelob scene.. :o I absolutely hate spiders!!

[Lurtz_2000]

yeah, she just sneaked that sting in there in a split second

[Cbars]

Originally posted by Rogue
I was the only person that screamed during the Shelob scene.. :o I absolutely hate spiders!!

That would have been me in our showing, I was climbing up on the chair... Nasty buggers. I don't think they would be so bad if they weren't so quiet.

[Brock Landers]

Originally posted by Rogue
I was the only person that screamed during the Shelob scene.. :o I absolutely hate spiders!!

As am I. I absolutely HATE spiders. I'm one of the most arachnophobic people you will ever come across. Maybe as a kid I watched too many of those Learning Channel programs about Spider, and they always play that goddamn violin-screeching music.

[Rogue]

It was quite embarrasing..screaming then sinking down in my chair because I felt like such a dork. :funny: Shelob was well done since she made me scream..ick.

[Brock Landers]

Originally posted by Cbars
That would have been me in our showing, I was climbing up on the chair... Nasty buggers. I don't think they would be so bad if they weren't so quiet.

Japan has it bad. I know this chick from there and the spiders are VICIOUS there. They actually like....hiss (:eek: ) at you and sometimes chase you down. Suicidal spiders.

[Cbars]

Originally posted by Brock Landers
Japan has it bad. I know this chick from there and the spiders are VICIOUS there. They actually like....hiss (:eek: ) at you and sometimes chase you down. Suicidal spiders.


I would faint!!! It is bad enough to have them jump out at you from the wash or under something when you move it, let alone have them chase you down. :shock: :shock:

[Rogue]

No joke..I'm such a wuss I can't even kill them..I run from them or throw someone and hope I hit them. :eek:

[Cbars]

Originally posted by Rogue
No joke..I'm such a wuss I can't even kill them..I run from them or throw someone and hope I hit them. :eek:

And then if you aim poorly and they come RIGHT AT YOU

[Brock Landers]

I know. It'd creep the **** out of me. My friend was in the bathtub and she was living in Japan at the time. Her aunt said "watch out!" because coming from the ceiling was one of the Spiders. It landed on the bath faucet and stuck up it's front legs and HISSED! It like did a run at her(it was at the back of the faucet) and did a dive-bomb in the water. It got a little ways and drowned. But it was fighting to get at her.

First time she was introduced to those bastards. :D

[Lurtz_2000]

i crush them with a long stick and i'm shaking as i do it and standing as far away as possible

[Brock Landers]

Originally posted by Rogue
No joke..I'm such a wuss I can't even kill them..I run from them or throw someone and hope I hit them. :eek: '

I kill ANYTHING that looks like a Spider. Even those "daddy longlegs". If it didn't want to get killed, it shouldn't look or walk like a spider. Just my philosophy ;)

[Rogue]

Originally posted by Cbars
And then if you aim poorly and they come RIGHT AT YOU


Ooooh yes, I hate that. :( Then you have to try and grab something else and throw it at them. Someone told me their just as scared of us as we are of them but I don't get that. If they're so scared why the hell do they run at us? Kamikazee spiders?


And I've seen the kind that hiss in Biology class, Brock and there is also huge cockroaches that hiss at you too...meh, that class scarred me for life. :shock:

[Rogue]

Originally posted by Brock Landers
'

I kill ANYTHING that looks like a Spider. Even those "daddy longlegs". If it didn't want to get killed, it shouldn't look or walk like a spider. Just my philosophy ;)

If it looks like a spider and looks like a spider and walks like a spider then it's a spider in my book. ;)

[Brock Landers]

Originally posted by Rogue
And I've seen the kind that hiss in Biology class, Brock and there is also huge cockroaches that hiss at you too...meh, that class scarred me for life. :shock:

Are they big? Creepy looking?

[Brock Landers]

Originally posted by Rogue
If it looks like a spider and looks like a spider and walks like a spider then it's a spider in my book. ;)

You got it, babe ;)

[Rogue]

Bigger than any I've seen. They aren't Shelob big but they served their purpose. They unnerved me. *shivers*

[Cbars]

Where I live we have these hairy ones with long legs that jump. I can't imagine if they hissed too. Let me tell you what, that part I talked about, where Shelob is over Frodo just getting ready to sting him.....I lay in bed and think they are crawling on me now.

[Brock Landers]

Goddamn I'm glad I'm American and not Japanese. And also taller. ;)

[Brock Landers]

Originally posted by Cbars
Where I live we have these hairy ones with long legs that jump.

Have those here too. The West coast is full of those bastards.

[Cbars]

I'm in the west too, but not the coast. Ours get to be about the size of a 50 cent piece with legs included.

[Lurtz_2000]

well NZ has hardly any dangerous spiders... i'm lucky

[Rogue]

I don't know what I'd ever do if I came across a spider shelob's size..probably just curl up in a ball and die. :funny:

[Brock Landers]

Originally posted by Rogue
I don't know what I'd ever do if I came across a spider shelob's size..probably just curl up in a ball and die. :funny:

I'd play dead and it'd leave me alone. Or does that only work for Bears? I've never come across a giant Spider before so I don't have to worry......but some day I will, someday. And I'll be ready. :cool:

[The Moose]

i'd either play dead, or find a convenient small hole into which i can fit, but into which no part of the spider can. if all else fails, RETREAT

[Spy-Of-Saruman]

'll pull out Sting and the Phial of Galadriel and take it on and ... oh wait, scratch that...

Serously though.. i'd get the hell outta there and like Moose said Find a small hole... then when she gets bored, climb out... and.. RUUUUUUN FOR THE HIIIIIIIIIIILLS

[Spy-Of-Saruman]

I wouldnt play dead, she'd just scoop me up and start putting me in her web cocoon, or she'd start devouring me right there.

[Spy-Of-Saruman]

Originally posted by Brock Landers
I know. It'd creep the **** out of me. My friend was in the bathtub and she was living in Japan at the time. Her aunt said "watch out!" because coming from the ceiling was one of the Spiders. It landed on the bath faucet and stuck up it's front legs and HISSED! It like did a run at her(it was at the back of the faucet) and did a dive-bomb in the water. It got a little ways and drowned. But it was fighting to get at her.

First time she was introduced to those bastards. :D
:eek: :eek: :eek:

When Gollum said "Go in... or go back" and then Shelobs Lair music started to play did anyone just turn and look at their friend knowing whats coming up?

I know when I heard that music kick in with the little beating intro I looked at my friend and said "Shes here" like Frodo said "Hes Here" to Sam in Osgiliath in The Two Towers:D

[Rogue]

I started biting my nails at that point..can't stand spiders. :p

[CWLakers34]

I'd like to be in this scared to freakin death of spiders club... When Shelob came on I took my sweatshirt and made it so that there was only a tiny hole i could see out of to watch the screen for a while. I'm even a guy and I was wimpering like a 5 year old girl. But if I saw a Shelob in real life I'd definitely have a heart attack before anything worse could come of me... at least I can't feel her pincers going into my skin then. :eek:

[Rogue]

:funny: Well, PJ did something good with Shelob. He made the wusses afraid of spiders of the world unite. ;)

[Brock Landers]

Maybe we should start a Support group right here in the LOTR board ;)

[Necross]

Ok as I am late posting in this thread I will cover a few things.

Number one, I loved Shelob's Lair. It was perfect, but like everyone else I wish it was longer, mainly because of how perfect it was, I wanted more perfect spiderness! I thought it was absolutely amazing how she snuck up on Frodo, goosebumps big time! I tell you, I have never seen a more realistic looking giant spider in any movie.

Number Two, I did look at my friend after Gollum said,"Go in or Go back!" She hates spiders and DIDN'T know what was in the cave I gave her this evil little smile because I kept telling her she would wet her pants when she saw what was inside, she almost did too. (I also am afraid of spiders but I knew what was coming lol)\

Number 3, I would kill myself if I saw a giant spider coming after me. Of course thats if there was no chance to escape, I don't care what I would have to do, sufficate myself, bash my head on a rock, or stab myself. Anything would be better then being eaten by a spider, the fear would be worse than the pain is really what I am trying to say.

There got all my thoughts down! :D

[Cbars]

The other thing is, a spider doesn't technically kill you right off, just paralyze you, so do you KNOW it is eating you?

[Necross]

Originally posted by Cbars
The other thing is, a spider doesn't technically kill you right off, just paralyze you, so do you KNOW it is eating you?

Thats what I mean about the fear is worse then the pain. They don't eat entirely fast either. I would so be looking for a rock.

Also I just thought of some great parody stuff. This is from The Simpsons!

*Frodo sees Shelob and then a piece of paper in front of him, and he reads it*

"To over come the spider's curse simply recite a bible verse..hmm...Thou shall not...Ah the hell with it!"

*picks up a pebble and chucks it and Shelob. It hits her in the face and kills her instantly, Frodo runs past*

[Rogue]

Originally posted by Cbars
The other thing is, a spider doesn't technically kill you right off, just paralyze you, so do you KNOW it is eating you?


:shock: Now there's a cheery thought if I've ever seen one..

[Cbars]

Originally posted by Rogue
:shock: Now there's a cheery thought if I've ever seen one..


Now cmon, tell me you had never thought of that.

[Necross]

I have heard of it Cbar, but I don't think anyone wanted to post it lol. Thats the stuff mega super duper titanic ultra palooze nightmares are made out of!

[Cbars]

Have you ever had a cob web or spider web brush across your face? That freaks me out so bad, my skin was crawling the whole time he was in those tunnels.

[The Moose]

i've had that happen to me countless times CBars, but i have no fear of spiders, unless they're really poisonous ones, which we don't have here in NZ

[Necross]

How about finding a black widow in a package of grapes you just bought at the store. Thank God it was dead, but I willl never shop there again.

[Samwise Gamwich]

Originally posted by Cbars
The other thing is, a spider doesn't technically kill you right off, just paralyze you, so do you KNOW it is eating you?

Dude...
I was bitten by a black widow spider when I was just 6 years old... I was sick for almost a month and my hand grew 3 times it's size... I almost could not breathe sometimes... I still have the bite scar on my left hand (Right about where Petter Parker go bitten but the opposite hand)

That is one reason I have a morbid fear of the damn things...

But I handled Shelob just fine

[Necross]

LOOK OUT SHELOB'S RIGHT BEHIND YOU SAMWISE!!!!!

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That'll teach you to flaunt your superior Shelob handlingness at us!

[jjyj88]

You know what I don't understand, before shelobs lair gollum threw the hobbits food off the cliff, well how are they supposed to continue their journey without any food, they barley had enough in the book as it is.

[Gandollum]

Actually, what I dont understand is why Sam started to break the Lambas bread, I mean c'mon its your only food supply and you start to break and crumble it.

[jjyj88]

yeah agreed.

[Samwise Gamwich]

Originally posted by Necross
LOOK OUT SHELOB'S RIGHT BEHIND YOU SAMWISE!!!!!

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That'll teach you to flaunt your superior Shelob handlingness at us!

I wasn't 'flaunting' it... I had Shelob on my desktop for almost a month before I saw ROTK just so I could get used to her enough so I would not try to hide my eyes during that sequence...

I was very happy I was successful but the biatch spider still gives me the heebee jeebee's

[Cbars]

I had a nightmare last night about the part where she is over Frodo just getting ready to strike.....makes my skin crawl.

[PsYkOoOoO]

u had a nightmare about shelob climbing over frodo or a nightmare about shelob climbing over you?coz that's a different thing altogether..the latter is much scarier..

[Cbars]

over ME.:shock: :shock:

[PsYkOoOoO]

holy....

[Rogue]

Originally posted by Gandollum
Actually, what I dont understand is why Sam started to break the Lambas bread, I mean c'mon its your only food supply and you start to break and crumble it.


I think he was pretty pissed off at that point. I don't think he was thinking in terms of perserving their food.

[Cbars]

He must have run like the devil was chasing him to get back in time to save Frodo too, he was quite a ways down.

[PsYkOoOoO]

hahhaa...when u are that angry nothing in yr mind works anyway

[Rogue]

I was wondering about that. It wasn't an easy climb to begin with but he was up there in a jiffy to save Frodo. Hmm, I guess adrenaline works wonders. ;)

[PsYkOoOoO]

friendship works wonders;)

[Gandollum]

Originally posted by Rogue
I think he was pretty pissed off at that point. I don't think he was thinking in terms of perserving their food.

It would be nice if they showed him putting the lambas bread in his pockets, but hopefully PJ puts that scene back in the EE.;) It would be funny, Sam is so pissed off, breaks the food, and then he realizes that hes breaking the lambas bread and then takes 10 minutes of his time trying to put all the bread back in his bag. Im pretty sure Frodo would be dead by then. Yeah, I agree, Sam breaking the bread adds more tension and drama during that scene.

[jjyj88]

Yes I understand, that makes alot of sense for the movie and I don't think I would want it another way, but still it dosent make sense in terms of reality, but who cares it's a great film and I dont think that scene takes away from it as much as I thought, actully in some respects it adds to the drama like you said.

[Necross]

Originally posted by Samwise Gamwich
I wasn't 'flaunting' it... I had Shelob on my desktop for almost a month before I saw ROTK just so I could get used to her enough so I would not try to hide my eyes during that sequence...

I was very happy I was successful but the biatch spider still gives me the heebee jeebee's

I was just kidding :D

*Stabs Shelob in the eye and saves Samwise*