Houses Of Healing Gone And More! ( Huge Spoilers)

[doc alex]

Jeff Giles of Newsweek has seen ROTK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and has a review/preview posted!
The movie starts with Deagol/Smeagol

Houses of Healing sequence has joined Saruman in the EE as " Houses of Healing: In the novel, Eowyn and Faramir convalesce here after battle. Aragorn heals her; she falls harder for him; Faramir falls for her. Jackson shot it, but felt the movie had strayed from Frodo too long. Viggo Mortensen was sad to learn (from Newsweek) the scene was gone. It'll be on the DVD ".


Here are some parts:

"New Line will likely position “The Return of the King,” which opens Dec. 17, as a sort of “actors’ movie,” in an effort to make an end run around the Academy’s well-documented antipathy toward fantasy. Whatever works. In truth, “Return of the King” has nothing to apologize for. It’s an epic. It tells a passionate, elemental story. It takes the principal filmmaking currency of our times, special effects, and makes them matter. Is it a fantasy? It’s a lot of people’s fantasy, yes. "

"This week Jackson is shooting footage to insert into the epic battle of Pelennor Fields, among other things. He guides Eowyn (Miranda Otto) and the Witch King (Lawrence Makoare) through some climactic hand-to-hand combat involving swords and a mace, the latter of which will be added digitally (” Whammo ,” he says. “Yep. Whammo. Whooosh. Bang. Bang. And another one. Whoosh “). "

"brief scene, in which the wizard Gandalf (Ian McKellen) advises Aragorn to ride to battle by a secret route, passes by on the monitor: “It’s a bit creepy,” Jackson says. “We don’t know why it’s creepy, but the music tells us it is. Spooky... spooky... spooky... and then the moment just sort of fades away.” A scene of swarming orcs attacking a ruined city by boat: “Tension... tension... tension still building. It doesn’t really explode until there . It’s not fight music anymore. It’s defeat music. It shouldn’t be heroic. It should be a nightmare. Maybe one way you can build tension is where the boats are splashing into the water."

Speaking of which. “The Return of the King” is the most ambitious installment of the trilogy. While “Fellowship” and “The Two Towers” had bravura action and effects sequences that you’d have thought were impossible to top, Jackson and the folks at WETA Digital continue to astonish. After Smeagol kills his brother for the ring at the bottom of the river—the sequence was originally intended for “The Two Towers”—”Return of the King” cuts to the present to find that Smeagol has undergone the most extreme makeover of all time: he’s turned into Gollum. The creature, long ago driven mad by the ring, is guiding Frodo and Sam (Sean Astin) toward Mount Doom so they can toss it into the fires before the evil Sauron—well, not exactly gets his hands on it, because he’s only an all-powerful, disembodied eye now, but you get the idea. Gollum longs to kill the hobbits and reclaim his “precious,” and the threesome make for a traveling party constantly careering among rage, suspicion, loathing, pity and love. In a sequence long awaited by fans, Gollum lures Frodo into a tunnel inhabited by an enormous spider named Shelob. As it pounds behind Frodo in the darkness, the spider—partly because Jackson himself just hates the damn things—looks almost photo-real and moves with a terrifying stealth. "

"The Return of the King” also delivers spectacular battle sequences—which probably goes without saying, given Jackson’s lifelong fascination with warfare.".

HOW ABOUT THAT : F******* GREAT:

"Yes, there are visually arresting moments: The elephantine creatures called Mumakil charging like tanks. The evil orcs overrunning the bone-white citadel of Minas Tirith. Aragorn and an army of ghosts on the offensive. But this time, there are just as many emotionally arresting moments: Faramir (David Wenham) leading a suicide mission just to prove his worth to his father, Denethor (John Noble), who’s deranged with grief after the death of a more beloved son. Eowyn, disguised as a soldier and trying to protect her wounded uncle King Theoden (Bernard Hill) from the monstrous Witch King: “I will kill you if you touch him!”'

there's more: http://www.msnbc.com/news/996638.asp

[PsYkOoOoO]

well..thats a pretty good review i see...i never really liked the house of healing chapter in the books...kinda slow especially after the battle of pelennor and stuff..pretty boring...not as exciting as VOS imo...which caused less disappointments..

[adt100]

hmmmm, I thought that the first press screening were Nov 27th, followed by the World Premier on Dec 1st, and then other showings on Dec 5th, up to the worldwide release on December 17th. I also thought that until Dec 1st there would be some kind of press embargo of such reviews. :confused:

As for the HOH, that was always likely to be something that was largely covered in the EE rather than the TC. All of the 'hands of a king are the hands of a healer' etc is something that will be far more interesting for book fans than the general public.

[adt100]

I just read this bit -

"“The Return of the King” begins with a flashback to what seems like the beginning of time—young Deagol is fishing with his creepy brother Smeagol when suddenly a fish on his line pulls him out of the boat and underwater, where he spots a gold ring half-submerged in the riverbed—so let’s begin with a flashback of our own."

Seems similar to the guess I made for the opening when we heard the first soundtrack snippets :) -

There are already 2 tracks that I'm almost convinced I can see the scenes that they will play with -


1. A Storm is Coming -

00:00 - 00:10 - A very light, bouncy, 'Hobbity' type of tune, = perfect setting for Deagol and Smeagol messing about on the river in their fishing boat.
00:11 - 00:20 - A quickening of the pace, building to a slightly sinister and dramatic flourish, then a pause = Deagol leaning over the boat scrambling around the river bed (he spots something)
00:21- The Ring theme, quite haunting, played on solo fiddle = the scene we have seen in the ROTK preview on the TTT DVD, Deagol/Smeagol opening his hand to see the One Ring.


After this brief episode showing Smeagol changing into Gollum the screen fades into the Gollum of today, leading the Hobbits towards the crossroads, whereupon, seeing the staue of the fallen King, the title 'The Return of the king' is displayed.

[PsYkOoOoO]

BUT...i was just thinking the other day...we have the FOTR title...the one on the cover on the EE...we have the TTT title..the one on the cover of the EE..how bout the ROTK one?

[doc alex]

Yeah... The Houses Of Healing was a scene that I always thought would be that wouldn't play very well in the theatrical edition of the movie. Of course there are going to be a lot of ladies out there that are going to be quite upset over this... but you can't please anyone

That makes me wonder though: is the Faramir-Eowyn wedding off as well, if their romance is not going to develop in the movie?

The reviewer, Jeff Giles says that the movies are a bit light on love--> This means that this isn't going to be the Aragorn-Arwen love story :)

[Samwise Gamwich]

Well so much for Narsil being reforged as the opening scene.....

[adt100]

That's the problem I think that PJ has had to address. You've got book fans who already think that there's been too much Arwen/Aragorn stuff, but then regular viewers (which will make up the majority of the audience) that think there is not enough. In that respect I think PJ has done a pretty good job of balancing
the 2 views.

BTW PsKoOoOoO, what do you mean? :confused:

[adt100]

Originally posted by Samwise Gamwich
Well so much for Narsil being reforged as the opening scene.....

This theory has been about all year, and maybe longer, but I'm not sure where the thought originally came from. It always seemed strange to have that at the very beginning, and having seen the trailer we know that there has to be some explanation before all this happens. It will be 1 of the opening scenes though, maybe after the Frodo/Sam/Gollum opening. It would be very fitting if, carrying on from my brief outline above, we go directly from the crossroads with Frodo saying "They cannot conquer forever" to the Argaron/Narsil story.

[Smeagol]

I don't think this man has seen ROTK. Remember, there was a similar article in a magazine this time last year from a reviewer claiming that he had seen TTT, although in his review he didn't say anything that he couldn't have learnt from the Net.

[PsYkOoOoO]

Originally posted by adt100
BTW PsKoOoOoO, what do you mean? :confused:

Ok look at yr EE cover...instead of the THE LORD OF THE RINGS words being emphasised..the THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING words are bigger...that's the title im talking abt..havent seen the ROTK one though..

[Smeagol]

BTW, is Newsweek on sale in the UK? :confused:

[doc alex]

I think that this story is quite true... he has obviously visited the set and many info is new... so, i think that is the real deal, it's just not a "review" in the traditional sense... it's a coverage that lets us know that they have seen the movie and it's bloody sensational :) :) :) :) :)

[doc alex]

I think that this story is quite true... he has obviously visited the set and much info is new... so, i think that is the real deal, it's just not a "review" in the traditional sense... it's a coverage that lets us know that they have seen the movie and it's bloody sensational :) :) :) :) :)

[PsYkOoOoO]

well i read somewhere that troy's battle with be bigger than ROTK and braveheart's...i think its just plainly stupid to say that..since ROTK is not out yet...and i bet that TROY' battle wont have the emotional feel to it...

[adt100]

Originally posted by PsYkOoOoO
Ok look at yr EE cover...instead of the THE LORD OF THE RINGS words being emphasised..the THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING words are bigger...that's the title im talking abt..havent seen the ROTK one though..

Yes, I know what you mean. That style of title is used only for the EE's though. I prefer it that way because it highlights the fact that above all this is The Lord of the Rings, and that 'The Return of the King' is more like a sub-heading.

[PsYkOoOoO]

yes..so what im saying is..we saw the Two towers title wayy before it was release..how come this time we havent seen it yet...

[DarkPhoenix646]

so lets say this is true...

Does that mean Aragon healing Faramir, Eowyn and Merry from the Blach Breath is gone, or does that mean Faramir and Eowyn falling in love is gone?

[PsYkOoOoO]

i dont think the part with eowyn and faramir will be totally out...maybe they will meet elsewhere..instead of the gardens before the house of healing...

[doc alex]

Originally posted by DarkPhoenix646
so lets say this is true...

Does that mean Aragon healing Faramir, Eowyn and Merry from the Blach Breath is gone, or does that mean Faramir and Eowyn falling in love is gone?

It probably means that we won't see the healing on screen and we may or may not see the Eowyn-Faramir romance but will have to wait for the DVD... Unless PJ shows them interacting in another enviroment and then a quick shot of the wedding... But their relationship could just as easily have to wait for the EE to be seen... we'll have to wait a bit more to find that out...

[adt100]

Originally posted by PsYkOoOoO
yes..so what im saying is..we saw the Two towers title wayy before it was release..how come this time we havent seen it yet...

Where did you see that? I don't remember seeing it until the EE came out, which will be the same for ROTK.

[Wyn]

Well this is the worst news i`ve heard so far as the houses of healing/the steward and the king chapters are probably my favourites in ROTK they better show something of the Faramir and Eowyn relationship or i`m going to come out of the cinema hugely dissapointed!!!
and yes i`m a woman but i`m also a huge LOTR film and book fan and I feel it would be really sad if nothing about Faramir and Eowyn was in the theatrical cut at all i cant wait tilll nxt november sob! :(

[PsYkOoOoO]

Originally posted by adt100
Where did you see that? I don't remember seeing it until the EE came out, which will be the same for ROTK.

Im very sure that i saw it when the official website updated to two towers...im very sure

[adt100]

Originally posted by Wyn
Well this is the worst news i`ve heard so far as the houses of healing/the steward and the king chapters are probably my favourites in ROTK they better show something of the Faramir and Eowyn relationship or i`m going to come out of the cinema hugely dissapointed!!!
and yes i`m a woman but i`m also a huge LOTR film and book fan and I feel it would be really sad if nothing about Faramir and Eowyn was in the theatrical cut at all i cant wait tilll nxt november sob! :(

Oh cripes. It seems every time we hear of any cut or change, it happens to be someone's 'favourite' part of the book.

No offence, but are you seriously saying that those brief Faramir/Eowyn scenes are your favourite part of the entire book!? That's 1 of the least important parts IMO, and certainly given all the other scenes/storylines, 1 of the sequences that is least missed. It was always a prime candidate for the EE, surely you can see that?

[JEDI_THE_WHITE]

I can see how the HoH, would be better in the extended dvd. One of the things David Wenham said is that the whole romance between Faramir and Eowyn happens over time. I could see how it might drag in the theatrical version.

[PsYkOoOoO]

it dragged in the book...so i think it will definitely drag in the TV

[Necross]

I agree that the HoH is better for the Dvd. But I can't wait to see them just like the VOS. IMO as long as the scenes will be seen in one from or another its great. I just finished reading the ROTK book, and I am more pumped than ever for the movie. Also I consider the Faramir/Eowyn scenes very important but again as long as they are on the Dvd I am happy. I just can't wait for the part with Theoden/Merry/WitchKing/Eowyn. I hope they will show Theoden slaying the Captain of the Harad.

[Wyn]

Well I knew that as in the first two versions a lot of the more character based/relationships between the characters would be left for the extended version of ROTK. So I had realised and heard that quite a bit of the houses of healing storyline would be left for the extended version however i`m really worried now because of how they cut the whole 7 mins of SOS out that we wont get anything of the F&E storyline at all which would be really sad and a mistake imho.

and yes ADT i`d be lying if I said it wasnt my fave part of ROTK cos it is, call me a hopeless romantic I dont care lol!! I love all of the book its my fave of the trilogy. However my fave parts have to be from the stweard and the king chapter and from the appendix (story of Arwen and Aragorn) *waits to be slated as a teenage girl who just loves the films and legolas* lol but i`m not i just happen to really love the romance elements aswell as the rest of the storyline.

I cant believe they would cut out the whole Faramir & Eowyn romance would they ???

[Necross]

I don't think they would cut out the whole thing, but unfortunately they have to think also of the audience who have never read the books and instead of taking out scenes that are pivotal to storylines that have been going on they will be more likely to take out a scene like the Faramir/Eowyn stuff because it won't really hurt that opinions of the non book readers because they don't know about it.

[doc alex]

Might I also add that we are most probably looking at a THIRD CONSECUTIVE BEST SFX WIN FOR ROTK?
GO WETA GO!

[downflow311]

wow, great news!!! this movie is going to be so awesome!!!!!!

its newsweek, this is defintely truth!

[adt100]

Over the past 6 months (and particularly the past few weeks with the VOS), I've read so many comments on so many LOTR boards about all the 'mistakes' PJ is making with his adaptation of ROTK, all just on brief comments such as this. Some of the coments at times (notably on TORN & TORC) have just been so OTT and ridiculous I really do wonder why they even bother watching the films. Briefly looking at a few other sites on this 'news' the same type of opinions from the same type of people are emerging.

PJ's this, PJ's that, why have they done this, why have they done that!? etc, etc, etc.

As there's only 24 days left to release I'm just going to wait until I see the film before making judgement, and try not to get involved with any of the over-reaction and condemnation we routinely see from LOTR 'fans'.

[downflow311]

im down with PJ. i like the changes he has made (excluding Arwen) and i cant wait to see what he will do with the ROTK story. as long as the stuff that i wanted in the TC will end up in the EE, then ill be fine. as long as i will eventually see it.

[Wyn]

I`m sorry if its wrong to be dissapointed that a part of the the story that u were really looking forward to possibly wont be in at all in the theatrical version. I was probably wrong to say it would be a mistake as it wont make any difference to ticket sales, money made and reviews etc i`m just dissapointed and I thought this was a discussion board to air our thoughts,views etc????
I`m not a book purist and I really love some changes that PJ and crew and made I just happen to love that part of the book.

Anyway I am actually trying to avoid huge spoilers at the moment and I would have avoided this particular post if the spoiler hadnt been in the title!!!!

I may just avoid coming on the board now untill after the film comes out as i`m still sure i`m going to love the film but over the last few months the only rumours/spoliers i have read have only made me feel dissapointed.

[Spy-Of-Saruman]

I agree with you Wyn about the H.O.H but like Downflow, I can wait for EE for it same with the V.O.S, I mean if PJ thinks its worthy of being cut then it obviously is..

[downflow311]

Originally posted by doc alex
Might I also add that we are most probably looking at a THIRD CONSECUTIVE BEST SFX WIN FOR ROTK?
GO WETA GO!

no doubt they will!!!! for some readon the matrix fanboys think revolutions has a shot, but i just laugh at that!!

[Dogbert0228]

For those who think this guy shouldn't have been allowed to see ROTK so early...

1) big LOTR fan, likes the books and movies and knows a lot about them

2) works for Newsweek, a large, well established publication

3) gave the first two films good reviews, and took the time to visit New Zealand for ROTK shooting and research

4) knows PJ personally

5) is trying to create hype for the film: good publicity = OSCAR + $$$

I like the guy, he does good reviews for the magazine, and I'm glad to see Newsweek give LOTR the attention it deserves

[downflow311]

^ i completely agree.

THE MASS MEDIA ON ROTK STARTS NOW

[adt100]

Originally posted by Wyn
I`m sorry if its wrong to be dissapointed that a part of the the story that u were really looking forward to possibly wont be in at all in the theatrical version...

The comments I made weren't specifically directed at you.

As I say, it's predominantly over at the likes of TORN/TORC where you get certain people going totally OTT, and making ridiculous comments about PJ the hacking, destroying the story, making no sense, mistake, ****-ups, ruining the movie, etc. It just gets tiring when this happens at almost every single change made. And people haven't even seen the film yet!

[Rizor]

A bit disappointed myself. There's another chunk of Faramir that won't be seen until the EE. :(

My only fear is that the EE's may not be reaching outsiders that are only casual fans of the movies. Sure, they probably wouldn't care what is cut, but it not being in the theatrical cut makes it feel like it's not really part of the movie. I know it is, but think of the thousands that will never see these scenes that will make the movies a richer experiece.

[Gandollum]

Originally posted by Rizor
A bit disappointed myself. There's another chunk of Faramir that won't be seen until the EE. :(

My only fear is that the EE's may not be reaching outsiders that are only casual fans of the movies. Sure, they probably wouldn't care what is cut, but it not being in the theatrical cut makes it feel like it's not really part of the movie. I know it is, but think of the thousands that will never see these scenes that will make the movies a richer experiece.

I agree, I think the EE for both films including ROTK will be far superior than the theatrical cuts. I just finished the TTT EE and its a vast improvement over the original and I understand why PJ made some of the changes. As for the genreal audience watching it, i think it does matter. I saw it with my brother who has never read the books, and he thought the added scenes really improved the theatrical cut. He understood more of the story and felt some of the deleted scenes should have been kept on the TE.

[Undome-Elenamin]

I'm not too sure about how the whole faramir/eowyn HOH thing will be but i'll wait and see. The only thing that bothers me is that the whole faramir taking the ring to Osgiliath in TTT made him seem like the bad guy. If i remember correctly that wasn't part of the book so(not completely sure).....

[adt100]

Whatever we book fans (or big LOTR film fans) think, the general movie-going public are not by and large going to be happy sitting through a full 4hr version of ROTK.

I know plenty of people who having seen the FOTR EE thought the extra scenes were nice little additions, but thought thy didn't really make the film any better per se, and just made it extremely long (which was a negative point for them).

[JEDI_THE_WHITE]

Everything is going to workout fine, when the film debuts everyone will be at these boards praising ROTK.


Also, it's not like we will never see these scenes, they are going to be in the EE. I can see if PJ cut them out to never put them back in, then it would be a time for panic and disapointment.


ROTK WILL RULE.

[The Moose]

precisely Jedi. the folw is something they really want to keep

[Queen Arwen]

Originally posted by Wyn
Well this is the worst news i`ve heard so far as the houses of healing/the steward and the king chapters are probably my favourites in ROTK they better show something of the Faramir and Eowyn relationship or i`m going to come out of the cinema hugely dissapointed!!!
and yes i`m a woman but i`m also a huge LOTR film and book fan and I feel it would be really sad if nothing about Faramir and Eowyn was in the theatrical cut at all i cant wait tilll nxt november sob! :(

I feel your pain, Wyn. :waa: It's going to be hard, sitting in a theater sometime near the end of December with nothing but next November to look forward to when the time for the HOH should be onscreen! That's probably my favorite chapter, "The Steward and the King."

[PsYkOoOoO]

No doubt ROTK will rule...:):):D

[Dogbert0228]

Originally posted by Rizor
A bit disappointed myself. There's another chunk of Faramir that won't be seen until the EE. :(

My only fear is that the EE's may not be reaching outsiders that are only casual fans of the movies. Sure, they probably wouldn't care what is cut, but it not being in the theatrical cut makes it feel like it's not really part of the movie. I know it is, but think of the thousands that will never see these scenes that will make the movies a richer experiece.

People will go and see and love ROTK regardless of what scenes from the intial cut are removed. Perhaps it will be better without them. But the casual fans you mention don't pay attention to message boards and entertainment news sites, and even if they did, may not see the significance of a few removed scenes like many of us do.

And these casual fans, if they like ROTK enough, will want to see more, and I've seen much larger media blitz for TTT EE than I have for FOTR EE, and I think we can expect even more for ROTK EE. People know the EE's are around, and I think that more video stores need to make these available to rent, as well as buy, which would encourage these casual fans... The last time I was a Blockbuster, I only saw two copies of FOTR EE to rent... I know, it being a 4 disc set and all, is difficult to rent out, but come on NL! Get your acts together....

But in the end, as long as I can see and own all the EE's myself, SCREW THE CASUAL FAN! :)

[Wyn]

I feel your pain, Wyn. It's going to be hard, sitting in a theater sometime near the end of December with nothing but next November to look forward to when the time for the HOH should be onscreen! That's probably my favorite chapter, "The Steward and the King."


I knew u would understand. The Steward and the King is my favourite chapter (probably know it off by heart lol).
As long as some of its in I`ll be happy. A couple of little scens would be enough for me in the theatrical i`m not asking for miracles!!

In the long run I guess it wont matter as i`ll buy the EE but a year down the line seems a long time at the moment!!

I also feel like some of u that somehow if its not in the theatrical version it doesnt seem like its in the actual film I know lot of people who love the films and go to the cinema to see them but dont buy the EE DVDs or any dvd for that matter
. At least i`ll get to see it eventually I guess.

[Wyn]

Recieved my ROTK trading cards today in the post and one of them "Orcs against them" No.74 confirms in my mind that there will be no (or very little) houses of healing Faramir and Eowyn scenes not even in the EE. This is how I know:

"Although both were wounded in the battle of the Pelennor fields, Merry and Eowyn bravely ride along with Aragorn`s soldiers as they head for the Black Gates of Mordor for a final confrontation with Sauron`s forces."

And I thought that ROTK was going to stay closer to the books lol

I`m just really hoping now that since they have changed where M&E are I hope they also change where Faramir is and he goes to the Black Gates also otherwise I cant see how we are going to get much of the Eowyn and Faramir romance in either the theatrical or the EE :( . If they have the E&F scenes and just change the location that doesnt bother me as long as there are some!!

[adt100]

Originally posted by Wyn
"Although both were wounded in the battle of the Pelennor fields, Merry and Eowyn bravely ride along with Aragorn`s soldiers as they head for the Black Gates of Mordor for a final confrontation with Sauron`s forces."

And I thought that ROTK was going to stay closer to the books lol

I`m just really hoping now that since they have changed where M&E are I hope they also change where Faramir is and he goes to the Black Gates also otherwise I cant see how we are going to get much of the Eowyn and Faramir romance in either the theatrical or the EE :( . If they have the E&F scenes and just change the location that doesnt bother me as long as there are some!!

Eh!?

Well, I think I'm with you on this part. I knew Merry went along to the Black Gates, (which I'm not too bothered about), but Eowyn as well! That does make me wonder how they'll fit the Faramir/Eowyn romance in, and also devalues the true danger and power of the WiKi. :(

Generally I far prefer clean cuts (as did JRRT) than alterations like this. I think I'd be far happier if the Eowyn/Faramir scenes were left largely for the EE rather than having to completely re-work them to bring into the TC.

[Necross]

Originally posted by adt100
Eh!?

Well, I think I'm with you on this part. I knew Merry went along to the Black Gates, (which I'm not too bothered about), but Eowyn as well! That does make me wonder how they'll fit the Faramir/Eowyn romance in, and also devalues the true danger and power of the WiKi. :(

Generally I far prefer clean cuts (as did JRRT) than alterations like this. I think I'd be far happier if the Eowyn/Faramir scenes were left largely for the EE rather than having to completely re-work them to bring into the TC.

But again remember that the majority of the theatre going audience for the lotr movies are non book readers. This stuff won't affect their opinions like the book readers. Anyway if that mean the EE will be completely redone, i think thats awesome. That way it really is like a completly new movie.

[adt100]

I know, but this is meant to be LOTR. PJ could change almost every single scene and still make a great movie, but it wouldn't be a very faithful adaptation.

I'm certainly not one of these die-hard purists, and that change on it's own doesn't bother me too much. It's all these little changes added together though that become a bit disappointing. I'd rather just a straight cut if time is an issue, which could then be re-inserted into the EE.

Audiences would be fine with that I'm sure.

Anyway, as for the change this is the only time I've seen or heard anything of it, and I'm still not entirely convinced that it will happen. How reliable is that source of information Wyn?

[Kris Hodgson]

Originally posted by PsYkOoOoO
well i read somewhere that troy's battle with be bigger than ROTK and braveheart's...i think its just plainly stupid to say that..since ROTK is not out yet...and i bet that TROY' battle wont have the emotional feel to it...

Ah.....mindless fanboy opinion. You say that it is stupid to think Troy's battles will be bigger than ROTK, because ROTK isn't out yet, but then how can you say that ROTK will be more emotional, SINCE TROY ISN'T OUT YET!?!?!? You totally contridicted yourself in one argument, trying to mindlessly defend ROTK. I'm not saying I think Troy will be better, I'm just pointing out that LOTR fans are sometimes idiots in the fact that they are so defensive.

[Wyn]

What about Merry and Eowyn being at the Black Gates??

Its on the back of one of Topps The Return of the King trading cards!!! I`d say about as reliable as u can get really. I have the trading cards so I read it first hand.

[Shagrat]

Eowyn secretly went to one battle; I doubt she'd be able to sneak to a second. I reckon they've got it wrong. The footage of the soldiers riding to the Black Gate does not show Eowyn. Merry is only lightly injured, so I could understand that, but I really hope Eowyn stays at Minas Tirith. This would be TOO MUCH of a deviation from the book IMO.

[Wyn]

Hmmmmmm I`m not sure I mean they have already done it one!! Eowyn didnt go to Helms Deep in the book either she stayed at Edoras.
Saying that they do keep calling Denethor King on the cards!! Keeps going King Denethor this King Denethor that lol why would they need the king to return if they already had one lol

I cant imagine this being wrong really as in all the books I havent once read anything about the HOH (and I have them all lol) i`m now really hoping Faramir is also at the Black Gates if the trading cards are wrong then great but I have a feeling they wont be!!

[adt100]

Originally posted by Shagrat
Eowyn secretly went to one battle; I doubt she'd be able to sneak to a second. I reckon they've got it wrong. The footage of the soldiers riding to the Black Gate does not show Eowyn. Merry is only lightly injured, so I could understand that, but I really hope Eowyn stays at Minas Tirith. This would be TOO MUCH of a deviation from the book IMO.

That's what I think. We know that even such 'official' information in the form of movie guides etc has been wrong before, although this doesn't seem something that could be mistaken in that way.

We know Merry will go to the Black Gates and have seen pictures pretty much confirming it (as well as the ROTK W&W book).

We haven't seen 1 single picture indicating Eowyn/Farmair going there, but we have seen pictures of the houses of healing with Aragorn and Farmir, and talk of the romance between the 2 being filmed.

It just seems a bit strange, and not something that they would necessarily hide from the audience.

[Shagrat]

I know I've seen a trading card pic of Eowyn looking out to the sunset and Faramir standing behind her. In the Weapons AND Warfare book, it says she takes a grievious blow and his healed by King Ellesar in the houses of Healing, where she relinquished all hopes for battlefield glory having already achieved it. And that book is based on the film too, so that's a good sign. Plus I'd sooner trust that than the cards.

[Wyn]

I know it does seem strange and there have been things in the guides that have been wrong b4 but usually its things that have been taken out or that have been left untill the EE.
Seems strange that it would have been completely changed since then though.

I havent seen any pictures after Aragorn heals Faramir and none of Faramir and Eowyn together so I dont know. I also havent seen any of Merry at the Black Gates (except for the one on the trading card which I had presumed was from BOTPF) I dont know why they would keep these things quiet though??
I agree it does seem like it will take something of the WiKi`s power away.

[Wyn]

That wasnt Faramir it was Theoden who was standing behind her in that piccy lol

[Shagrat]

Not sure how I got those two mixed up. I'm still hopeful though as the W&W book says they end up together!

[doc alex]

the Newsweek story clearly states that during the Houses of Healing Faramir falls for Eowyn. That doesn't mean that she will or won't be in the Black Gates... We'll just have to wait a bit to find out ;)

[Shagrat]

But Faramir musn't go to the Black Gate otherwise surely he'd be at the front with the important people?!? If this is the case, Eowyn must get injured if she does go to the Black Gate so they can meet in the House of Healing. And as you can see, this greatly complicates things. Bottom line - she CANNOT be at the Black Gate.

[adt100]

Yes. I've been scanning all the pictures of the armies of the West going to the Black gates (I've even got a high-res version of the march of from Minas Tirith as my PC wallpaper) and I certainly can't see either Faramir or Eowyn.

All evidence except that 1 card that Wyn mentions points to them remaining at the HOH. I hope that is the case.

[JBomb87]

Hey!!! I don't know about you guys, but I'm hyped about the final movie. I think in my opinion the third film is going to be huged. So I think we all should wait until the film comes out. Also we be in for a treat when the extended version comes out.:D

[ILOVEKATIE]

I think there will be some type of chemistry/scenes with Eowyn and Faramir cause PJ said in one magazine article(I think it was Entertainment Weekly) that there will be four deaths and two weddings in the film.
BUT the thing is that he may had said that before cutting/editing the film.
I guess will have to wait and see.

[RyansRing]

I fully forgot that article, but yeah..."two weddings" and it couldnt be anybody else but Eowyn and Faramir and Aragorn and Arwen.
But im sick of everybody doubting every bloody edit that PJ makes. Geesh he's made us happy so far with the edits in FOTR and TTT, so why not wait and see ROTK before we judge. Ifg it sucks than burn him at the stake. But im sure it wouldnt suck in the slightest.

[PsYkOoOoO]

4 deaths?lets see...

Theoden...Denethor...Gollum...Sauron????

[Shagrat]

The other wedding could be Sam and Rosie's...

[PsYkOoOoO]

wait...which are the 4 deaths?did i name them right?

[Necross]

I am not sure now, with VOS taken out, there might not be 4 deaths.

[adt100]

The '4 (main character) deaths and 3 weddings' comments made a while ago will relate to Saruman, Denethor, Theoden, Gollum, Aragorn & Arwen, Eoyn & Faramir, Sam & Rosie.

[Turin Turambar]

I really don't like the idea of Eowyn at the Black Gates. The whole point of the HoH chapter was for Faramir to show Eowyn that battle is not something to glorify.

Eowyn is in love with Aragorn, but Faramir says that she is in love with the idea of Aragorn--a valiant warrior and charismatic leader. However, Aragorn does not seek glory in battle, he fights because he was given the power to do so. He would rather be living peacefully in Rivendell than to fight but because he must he rides out in front. Therefore, Eowyn realizes that battle isn't the only means for valour and she sees Faramir with new eyes.

Putting Eowyn at the Black Gates totally changes the character Tolkien wrote. Frankly, I'm more pissed this is cut than the VoS.

[rzrbks]

No offence, but are you seriously saying that those brief Faramir/Eowyn scenes are your favourite part of the entire book!? That's 1 of the least important parts IMO, and certainly given all the other scenes/storylines, 1 of the sequences that is least missed. It was always a prime candidate for the EE, surely you can see that? It establishes a "healthy" relationship between Eowyn and Faramir as contrasted by the "high and puissant" nature of the relationship between Aragorn and Arwen


Eowyn is in love with Aragorn, but Faramir says that she is in love with the idea of Aragorn--a valiant warrior and charismatic leader. However, Aragorn does not seek glory in battle, he fights because he was given the power to do so. He would rather be living peacefully in Rivendell than to fight but because he must he rides out in front. Therefore, Eowyn realizes that battle isn't the only means for valour and she sees Faramir with new eyes. Couldn't it also show that Eowyn realizes that to have something akin to a normal life Faramir is the choice rather than Aragorn? My thinking is that Eowyn wants a "real love" rather than a Royal one who must constantly put the needs of Kingdom ahead of those of family and spouse. She has seen how this destroyed her uncle.

[PsYkOoOoO]

Originally posted by adt100
The '4 (main character) deaths and 3 weddings' comments made a while ago will relate to Saruman, Denethor, Theoden, Gollum, Aragorn & Arwen, Eoyn & Faramir, Sam & Rosie.

2 or 3 weddings?some said 2 and u asid 3?hmm

[The Moose]

thay may cut out Faramir and Eowyn's wedding, due to their meeting in the HoH, and their not being in the TC, but i think that would be just a mistake. all 3 have to be there

[LOTRNUT04]

are you all sure that they are going to show sam and rosie marrying, i have a feeling that they wont

[The Moose]

i can see why ya have that feeling, as i sort of have it too, but i'm pretty sure that they will, for some strange reason

[LOTRNUT04]

just to sum up the fact that it is all over, maybe?

[The Moose]

what do ya mean, "Is it all over"?

[LOTRNUT04]

that the war and all the "bad"

[The Moose]

oh that being over. answer will be same as it is in the book yesdownfall of Sauron, all the orcs going, men no longer corrupted, etc

[LOTRNUT04]

exactly

[king_of_hetzer]

Wait, adt100 got the third marriage wrong. Its Sam & Frodo according to the movies now, not Sam & Rosie.

[PsYkOoOoO]

what the heck are you talking about????

[adt100]

Originally posted by PsYkOoOoO
2 or 3 weddings?some said 2 and u asid 3?hmm

Yes, the original report from a foreign magazine confirmed 4 deaths and 3 wedings. These will still happen however much we do or don't see of them in the TC (ie Saruman.)

[The Moose]

he's talking about Sam and Frodo seeming to be gay PsYkOoOoO

[LOTRNUT04]

that hetzer guy is random, not funny random just stupid random....he should be banned.

[The Moose]

sometimes he is, and sometimes he isn't.

[LegolasIsntSexy]

he might've been making fun of PJ seeing as how he does some changes from the books. thats what i got from it at first.

[Necross]

*rolls eyes*

Oi people and there *****ing about changes. (This is aimed at everyone who complains about it not anyone in particular)

[Brandy]

According to spoiler reports filtering in from the special sceening of ROTK yesterday . . there is no House of Healing scene . . and the only indication of anything between Eowyn and Faramir is that they stand beside each other during the coronation.

The two marriages appear to be Arwen and Aragorn and Sam and Rosie . .


Oh, and Merry goes to the Black Gate, but Eowyn does not.

[Necross]

Originally posted by Brandy
According to spoiler reports filtering in from the special sceening of ROTK yesterday . . there is no House of Healing scene . . and the only indication of anything between Eowyn and Faramir is that they stand beside each other during the coronation.

The two marriages appear to be Arwen and Aragorn and Sam and Rosie . .


Oh, and Merry goes to the Black Gate, but Eowyn does not.

Ok Merry going to the Black Gate is fine. I am happy that Eowyn doesn't I mean they couldn't do that if they wanted to do the love between her and Faramir which will be on the EE. Merry is completely understandable because he really didn't do anything after the Battle of Pellennor fields except in the Scouring of the Shire, but since that is not in the films they needed to do something else with him. I think they will do it rather well actually. My excitement keeps mounting for this movie.