What are you looking forward to most of all in Episode III? [SPOILERS] [Archive]

jpdill

11-22-2003, 08:30 PM

ALSO I COMPLETELY FORGOT: PLEASE POST IF YOU'RE MOST LOOKING FORWARD TO THE REVEALING OF THE TRAITOR - I FORGOT TO ADD IT TO THE POLL

The rumour (which has nothing opposing it, but everything going for it) is that Saesee Tiin is the traitor.

Reasons for:

He admires Annie ALOT - thinks he's a brilliant person and does as much as he can

When Mace was killed, Saesee Tiin went away, and said he was looking for answers to who this sith is.

Saesee Tiin never took part in the Clone Wars Battle of Geonosis, but was marked down a Jedi who did, with a false picture saying he did.

In THE CLONE WARS cartoon, when Saesee Tiin is flying, he's the only Jedi NOT to fire or do anything other than fly.

He's supporting the sepratists...

true fan11212

11-22-2003, 11:54 PM

I'm looking forwartd to it all. Its too hard to choose.

Malitos_Sahkir

11-23-2003, 07:39 AM

Yoda vs. Palpatine. Looking forward to Yoda getting his ass handed to him, and a true Sith Master fighting.

jpdill

11-23-2003, 08:06 AM

Could you please vote that at the top of the page please...

Alien

11-23-2003, 11:25 AM

The Siege of the Jedi Temple, coz, well think of the visuals of the Jedi all fighting and dieing.

Since Mace is said to be the best with a saber, so good that Shaft got the different colour saber he asked for, shouldn't he get a double ended lightsaber for the war? Double ended lightsabers require the welder to be true masters and I think it'd be cool to see Shaft jumping around with two purple blades as Mace.

LordOfDarkness

11-23-2003, 12:47 PM

the knighthood of Lord Vader

btw, its Ani, not Annie.

jpdill

11-23-2003, 12:50 PM

errr - wrong there.

In the books and documentations of STAR WARS, "Annie" is used.

JAE

11-24-2003, 03:10 PM

I want to see Darth Vader hunt down and kill the remaining Jedi as said by Obi Wan in ANH.

todd philip

11-25-2003, 12:10 AM

jpdill some of the choices you have are rumors!

JackBauer

11-25-2003, 03:37 AM

to me...everything is a rumour until i see the trailer/movie/original images

jpdill

11-26-2003, 11:42 AM

What ones are rumours?

droidguy1119

11-26-2003, 01:34 PM

Blah...most everything you say is rumors.

JackBauer

11-26-2003, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by droidguy1119
Blah...most everything you say is rumors.

exactly

jpdill

11-26-2003, 05:35 PM

Here's comfirmed scenes (by Lucasfilm):

- Battle over Coruscant
- Dawn of the Empire
- The Clone Trooper Revolt
- Wookie Battle
- Elimination of the Jedi
- Underwater Battle
- Mace vs. Sith in Cancellor's Office
- Revealing the traitor
- Obiwan vs. Grevious (new equivalent of Maul)
- Obiwan vs. Anakin
- The Death of Padmé
- Naming and Crowning of Lord Vador

jpdill

11-26-2003, 05:43 PM

Lucasfilm also comfirmed the biggest battle [which happens to be a Jedi one] is in Episode III.

Seeing how there a 9000 Jedi in the Universe, if you minus the ones killed, you should have alot of Jedi fighting in this scene.

9000 total Jedi minus 180 killed on Genosis minus a guess of 200 killed in The Clone Wars minus the number of Jedi killed in the Trooper Revolt should give us about 8500 Jedi.

If this was to be in the Jedi Temple, which can hold that many people, i believe it is the perfect area for a concluding battle.

It would be like Minus Tirith, where instead of the men trying to save their city, it's the Jedi saving home. Then to an equivalent to Pellenor Fields, we have a space battle above - the Jedi ride out in there ships for the ultimate dog fight.

Pointy Shrub

11-26-2003, 11:14 PM

OMG, a long time ago when the Star Wars Afterdark screensaver was released (mid 90's) there was a bio screensaver, and in the Darth Vader screen it told of how darth was defeated by OB1 and fell into a volcano and that resulted in him wearing his suit.

and since i saw that info some 8 years ago i couldnt wait for this episode to end so i could see that epic battle take place. this is so going to have a better ending than Revolutions.

Bucket101Proof

11-30-2003, 03:33 PM

You do realize that most of your options have indeed not been confirmed by Lucasfilm, right? Why do you insist on acting as if rumors and hearsay is true?

Here's comfirmed scenes (by Lucasfilm):

- Battle over Coruscant

I don't believe a battle over Coruscant has been confirmed, although from the spy reports and rumors that have been floating in it would not be a surprise. So please, if you would, post where you found a battle over Coruscant to be confirmed by LFL. Thanks.

- Dawn of the Empire

Well obviously. Maybe you should change it to Birth of the Empire though.

- The Clone Trooper Revolt

Hmmm...can't remember this ever being confirmed by anyone from LFL, just by people claiming to have solid information. Again, I'd like to see where you've read that this is confirmed. Thanks.

- Wookie Battle

Yes, you are correct, it was been confirmed that a battle will take place on Kashyyyk, although no Wookie scenes have been filmed yet. They're being saved for pickups next March. Good job!!!

- Elimination of the Jedi

Who says we're actually going to see all the Jedi being eliminated? I think more of it will be implied, not shown. Also, who said that Boba Fett will figure highly into the elimination of the Jedi? A 13 year old with a grudge is going to take out highly trained, powerful Jedi? I don't think so.

- Underwater Battle

Underwater Battle has been confirmed. Congrats again!

- Mace vs. Sith in Cancellor's Office

Yes, Mace fights, but who and where still remain a mystery. Again, don't believe every rumor you hear!!

- Revealing the traitor

Hmm...I can't remember hearing that there even is a traitor. Care to refresh my memory?

- Obiwan vs. Grevious (new equivalent of Maul)

Yes, the rumor is that Obi-Wan fights Grievous and ends up taking him out with a blast to the midriff. Of course, that's if you believe the rumors.

- Obiwan vs. Anakin

Obvious.

- The Death of Padmé

Rumor. Of course, there have been sightings of a "funeral" scene being shot on the webcame, but then again things aren't always what they seem...

- Naming and Crowning of Lord Vador

Rumor.

jdpill: why do you insist on claiming that all that you hear about Ep. III is absolute fact? Please, I beg you to check sources and validity of this information.

downflow311

11-30-2003, 04:53 PM

hey i heard the someone in SW goes topless. is that natalie portman? and if so i change my vote to seeing that!!!!!!

JEDI_THE_WHITE

11-30-2003, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by downflow311
hey i heard the someone in SW goes topless. is that natalie portman? and if so i change my vote to seeing that!!!!!!

No bro, Hayden Christensen has a scene with Natalie Portman where his shirt is off.

JEDI_THE_WHITE

11-30-2003, 05:12 PM

My vote is not up there, so here it is anyway:

The death of Padme and her funeral

jpdill

11-30-2003, 05:22 PM

- Battle over Coruscant

Actually, i don't know for fact - it makes sense though. The Jedi have let the clone wars continue for 2 years, and when it destroys the Coco District, Palpy uses it against them.

- Dawn of the Empire

My title for the film - comfirmed.

- The Clone Trooper Revolt

Comfirmed from Set Reports and HS - Obiwan has to kill one of his Trooper friends.

- Wookie Battle

Correct - watching all those wookie suits and weapons makes me happy.

- Elimination of the Jedi

This really is the killing of the normal Jedi - it's comfirmed to happen, but whether we'll see it in full glory is another story.

- Underwater Battle

Comfirmed - basically one of the first highlights of HS

- Mace vs. Sith in Cancellor's Office

Half true - maybe not his office. But if you put together the fact Palpy's sabre is connected to his chair, and that his office set has tonnes of stuff in it (for filming fight scenes) i take it it's in there. Look at past BTH photos.

- Revealing the traitor

It was comfirmed in Episode III, we'll find out who was being a traitor to the Jedi.

- Obiwan vs. Grevious (new equivalent of Maul)

This is comfirmed, but accidently. Grevious is like a robot thing, that has 4 light sabres. We'll see him in the final episode of Clone Wars for the first time, and this is the Expanded Universe character that is in the new film. The fight with Obi-wan is like part 2 of a fight that started in Episode 20 of Clone Wars.

- Obiwan vs. Anakin

True.

- The Death of Padmé

Half-true. We know for fact she starts giving birth prematurely after an attack, however it's not comfirmed. The people who run TFN, who state they have seen her funeral, have posted images of what they saw on their site.

- Naming and Crowning of Lord Vador

Comfirmed on Hyperspace. We'll see why he's called Vador, and his first step into the world of the Sith...

It's also Hayden we see topless again.

downflow311

11-30-2003, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by JEDI_THE_WHITE
No bro, Hayden Christensen has a scene with Natalie Portman where his shirt is off.

GL is making anothe mistake then:D

jpdill

11-30-2003, 05:44 PM

ALSO, don't forget we see the first Star Destroyer in this film - i say in the last 2 minutes. Below is what i want to happen:

After newly named Ben drops Yoda and then does his Tatooine thing.

We start off with Padmé's funeral. Many attend and there are crowds of people all around this raised ground - it's like a circle in the middle where Padmé is resting. She's just there lying down looking gorgous.

Many are crying, and then we raise the camera up, and we see the executor fly over the camera really slow. We then move the camera slowly around, and we see Vador in his suit leaning against the window. His head is down.

We cut back to Padmé and red flower petals are being release in the air from pretty much all around the circle - Vador's request. We cut back to Vador and we see he's clenching his hand. This makes the leaves form as circling spiral around Padmé. We see this.

We cut back from the ship, and do like a tilt down, and we're completely above Padmé. The red-rosey petals a spiralling, and we go virtically straight down the centre to Padmé's face.

And just when you expect the music to cut from whatever music it is to the SW theme, we hear Vador for the last time in the film.

He says in his deep, echoey voice:

"I did you wrong my love, forever i am in your debt. In memory of our love, i'll forever spin these rosey-petals. Forever preserve your beauty. Forever protect you. The Force will always look over you - as will I"

And we end the film.

Now, when Lucas makes his AE versions, he can add a new-scene in ROTJ. When Vador dies, and actually dissapears, we cut to a rejoicing Naboo temple where Padmé lay, and the petals still are spining. Then she dissapears like the Jedi, and the roses fall.

We then see her with Annie at the end. She dissapears because she was looked after by the force for like 22 years - the force became apart of her, even in her afterlife. Vador didn't want to lose her, so he made the force run through her. She wasn't dead, but wasn't living either.

Post comments - i know it's not really a STAR WARS ending, but i think it would be nice.

JEDI_THE_WHITE

11-30-2003, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by jpdill
The Death of Padmé

Half-true. We know for fact she starts giving birth prematurely after an attack, however it's not comfirmed. The people who run TFN, who state they have seen her funeral, have posted images of what they saw on their site.

That was confimred, when I attended the LFL PRESIDO, it was talked about and confirmed.

flukeman

11-30-2003, 09:30 PM

I'm looking forward most of all to the end of the prequels.

jpdill

12-01-2003, 11:24 AM

I'm looking forward to the initial reaction of the public, when Lucas makes a film better than LOTR.

Bucket101Proof

12-01-2003, 03:47 PM

I'm looking forward to the initial reaction of the public, when Lucas makes a film better than LOTR.

Sorry, but it's going to have to be one hell of a movie then.

Oh yeah, and most of your information is still incorrect. Too bad you're not going to believe me 'till 2005.

jpdill

12-01-2003, 04:47 PM

errrr......

next year - there will be trailers. We'll see stuff.

But not for certain until the film comes out.

droidguy1119

12-01-2003, 05:15 PM

Yeah...end of these prequels. Maybe Episode III will be good, and wash the bad taste from my mouth, which I do hope (I hung out with a Star Wars fan over the weekend, and playing Rogue Squadron II on the Game Cube made me remember why I used to like Star Wars).

And to jpdill: Set reports and www.theforce.net are NOT TRUTH. Until someone sees a cut of the film, they are just STRONG RUMOR. As many have said, stop believing everything you hear.

When you don't just go off on every rumor...then I can tolerate you. Like I'd said before, I don't have a problem with you. I just don't think a lot of what you say is true, and I flatly disagree that OT SW will die without a SFX upgrade.

jpdill

12-02-2003, 05:31 PM

New Scene - from watching the HS video for the 18th time, i can comfirm that there will be a fight in a star destroyer.

downflow311

12-02-2003, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by jpdill
I'm looking forward to the initial reaction of the public, when Lucas makes a film better than LOTR.

:lol: best laugh i've had in a while. dont get your hopes up

jpdill

12-02-2003, 06:41 PM

don't think LOTR is almighty...

downflow311

12-02-2003, 07:06 PM

thats not what think. i think George Lucas cant write a decent script anymore. all i see happeneing in SW3 is more campy ass dialogue and slow pacing. maybe one or 2 cool moments.

droidguy1119

12-02-2003, 07:35 PM

Yeah. "I hate sand"? I'll pass...

droidguy1119

12-02-2003, 07:35 PM

And don't give me any of that "Bad acting is a staple of Star Wars" crap. That's a horrendous excuse.

Bucket101Proof

12-04-2003, 01:40 PM

next year - there will be trailers. We'll see stuff.

But not for certain until the film comes out.

If we don't know for certain what will happen 'till the film comes out then why do you act as if every rumor around is fact?

New Scene - from watching the HS video for the 18th time, i can comfirm that there will be a fight in a star destroyer.

Ha. Thanks, that's a good one. If I don't believe rumors from a credible Star Wars site then what makes you think I'm going to believe you?

jpdill

12-04-2003, 02:32 PM

Well let'se see.

When Lucas says "I don't know how we're gonna get this fight in there" pause the screen. Then look at what he's referring too on his table.

The picture is of a early STAR DESTROYER, or all the pictures are labelled, Seperatist Cruiser and the pictures are of the the bridge of the ship and some kind of throne, which we now know from today's comfirmed set reports on TFN is where Palpy sits when he's taken captive...

By the way, it's 2:27 you'll have to cut to.

MovieWes

12-04-2003, 03:06 PM

jpdill, you do realize that Episode III stands a snowball's chance at even being nominated for an Oscar? ROTK stands a snowball's chance at LOSING the BEST PICTURE Oscar this year!

jpdill

12-04-2003, 03:32 PM

a litte random IMO, but yeh.

Unless Lucas has been really been making them act bad on purpose, so audiences will be astonised when they see Episode III, and GL let's them act the best they can, i really doubt it'll be nominated for an Oscar.

And seeing how the film is completed by Christmas 2004, i doubt it'll win best SFX - however, it'll be nominated. That, or Jurassic Park 4.

King Kong or JP4 will win it, or maybe ILM choose to use SW3 instead of JP4 - they're more likely to win if it's JP4.

The only ones Episode III can compete for are really are the B-awards:

Best Score
Best SFX
Best Cinematography
Best Art Direction
Best Sound
Best Sound Editing
Best Adapted Screenplay (doubt it)
Best Film Editing

and in my opinion, Lucas will be given the Honary Award for his work on Digital Technology - he's behind all the modern blue screen work, due to Young Indy.

MovieWes

12-04-2003, 04:13 PM

Best Score will be ineligible for sure. That's the rule, sequels that use motifs from previous scores aren't eligible.

The only noms it has a chance at getting are visual effects, sound, and sound editing. It'll probably only be nominated for visual effects though.

And let's compare the accomplishments of both series, okay?

Let's start with the reviews, alright?

Rotten Tomatoes:

STAR WARS

The Phantom Menace- 63%, 7/10 rating
Attack of the Clones- 63%, 6.8/10 rating

LORD OF THE RINGS

The Fellowship of the Ring- 94%, 9/10 rating
The Two Towers- 98%, 8.7/10 rating

Okay, so onto the Academy Awards

STAR WARS

The Phantom Menace

3 Academy Award nominations, best sound, best sound editing, best visual effects
0 wins

Attack of the Clones

1 Academy Award nomination, best visual effects
0 wins

LORD OF THE RINGS

The Fellowship of the Ring

13 Academy Award nominations, including best picture, best director, best adapted screenplay, and best supporting actor (Ian McKellen)
4 wins, best visual effects, best original score, best cinematography, and best makeup

The Two Towers

6 Academy Award nominations, including best picture
2 wins, best visual effects and best sound editing

And now to box-office achievement...

STAR WARS

The Phantom Menace

Domestic U.S. Gross- $431,088,297, #1 for the year 1999
Worldwide Gross- $925.6 million, #1 for the year 1999

Attack of the Clones

Domestic U.S. Gross- $310,676,740, #3 for the year 2002
Worldwide Gross- $648.3 million, #4 for the year 2002

LORD OF THE RINGS

The Fellowship of the Ring

Domestic U.S. Gross- $313,364,114, #2 for the year 2001
Worldwide Gross- $862.2 million, #2 for the year 2001

The Two Towers

Domestic U.S. Gross- $339,789,891, #2 for the year 2002
Worldwide Gross- $920.5 million, #1 for the year 2002

And now for the fan reactions, based upon the IMDB score..

STAR WARS

The Phantom Menace- 6.6/10
Attack of the Clones- 7.2/10

LORD OF THE RINGS

The Fellowship of the Ring- 8.8/10, #8 of top 250
The Two Towers- 8.9/10, #4 of top 250

Well, I guess that about covers it.. whew! Now what's the superior trilogy jpdill?????

jpdill

12-04-2003, 05:19 PM

I didn't say LOTR sucked. I didn't say STAR WARS was going to win Oscars, either.

It's just, LOTR isn't that original once you break it down into peices. They're got original ideas inside it, but it's really a collection of previously done movie techiques all rolled into one, with the "Lord of the Rings" story slapped on. It's a really good film though.

And about this STAR WARS prequels being rated badly - most the people on it are past fans really angry at Episode I, because it wasn't what they wanted.

I mean, really. Do you honestly think STAR WARS II was crap - it's just people being over the top. They're not brilliantly made, but entertaining none the less. To me, Episode I was a 4-star film, and Episode II was 5-stars, but realistically i don't see Episode I and II getting anything lower that 4-stars.

That's the average score really, and those who really really pick on it because it's not what they want are really sad indeviduals as they think it's just for them.

It's not. And even though you hate to admit it, the last two films aren't crap - any person with a brain can see that. They certainly aren't brilliant pieces of work, but they're good in the fact they're setting up the final epic.

Episode I's purpose was to introduce what order the republic have and the characters. Episode II was to show how they react to something that not only disturbs the Jedi's order and society (like Episode I did) but the entire population under the republic order. This upcoming one is about the consquences of actions taken in the previous two films.

The new films are really different to the last. However, with a few changes here and there, and with an updated look, when you look back at these 6 films, and the Appendix, you'll find that STAR WARS is one of cinema's most complete stories ever.

Just like LOTR, there's lots and lots and lots of STAR WARS material all over the place. All these species, all the characters, all the unions, and the planets, etc. It's huge. And it belongs to anyone.

If you've got the right qualifications, you can write STAR WARS and make it through games. You can be a part of it. That's something that lacks in LOTR, and why STAR WARS will always be Number 1 for me, and LOTR second. That feeling of being in their universe.

LOTR for me is good material and acting, but eye-candy. You watch it, and you don't feel you're apart of it. STAR WARS does make you feel that - who didn't feel like they were there at the podrace? Who didn't feel they were in the depths of war during all these STAR WARS? Geonosis, Yavin, Hoth and Endor all made us feel there. And that's what makes STAR WARS what it is.

Bucket101Proof

12-05-2003, 10:57 AM

LOTR for me is good material and acting, but eye-candy. You watch it, and you don't feel you're apart of it.

That's funny, because it seems the overall consensus says just the opposite, that LOTR is more than eye candy and SW is nothing but eye candy. Personally, I've never felt more involved in a story than with LOTR. I've watched each version of both films numerous times and feel I know these characters better than any of the prequel characters. I can't imagine leaving Middle Earth, and I expect to be wholley moved at the end of ROTK.

That's not to say I'm not damn excited about Episode III, but at this point in my life I find that LOTR offers a much more satisfying emotional journey. Two years ago I couldn't have cared less about Frodo and the ring. I had never read the books, nor cared too. I would've put money down that Fellowship turned out to be a disaster and the other two films would go straight to video. I was wrong. Not only has Peter Jackson managed to stay faithful to the books, he's made the movies stand apart from the source material.

droidguy1119

12-06-2003, 11:04 AM

Ahaha...to answer your comment, yes, in fact, I did think Episode II was crap. Really. You can quote me on that, too.

And no, it's not that I thought it was just for me, I, um, you know, actually thought it was badly acted, badly scripted, with bad dialogue, boring visuals and a nearly complete lack of music, all of which pissed me off. "What does this button do? Whoops!" is not cinematic genius, and neither is "I hate sand." And the humor in seeing a highly-caffienated frog with a glow stick flying around Christopher Lee wears off after about, oh, one viewing.

When I go to see LotR, I feel inspired again about the magic movies can create. Compared, STAR WARS, at least the prequels, are hearts of stone. I watched part of A New Hope recently, and it lived up to its title. It reinvigorated my love of STAR WARS, which the prequels had shredded to pieces.

Like Bucket101Proof, I, like most moviegoers, do certainly hope Episode III will be as good as LotR, but we don't believe it because we actually did dislike or even hate the new movies. Episode I wasn't terrible, but only twice throughout both of them have I felt that rush, the reverberation through the theater that, unquestionably, "This is STAR WARS."

The Lord of the Rings movies were a revelation to us. We love them like we loved STAR WARS -- in fact, when I first watched the conversation with Gandalf and Bilbo in the kitchen at the beginning of Fellowship the day it arrived in theaters, I thought of the scenes on Tatooine, with Owen and Beru, and I thought to myself, "I'll be watching this scene over and over again, for a long time to come."

Sure, I felt I was "in" STAR WARS. Podrace, yes, and the asteroid field, I suppose. The rest? No. LotR? Unquestionable. I was there for every minute of it.

downflow311

12-06-2003, 04:20 PM

jpdill actually thinks episode 3 will be nominated for something at the oscars?!?!?! lol

you need to drop down to reality there you pedofile. lol

jpdill

12-06-2003, 05:03 PM

wtf?

no i don't. what makes you think that?

and how am i a paedophile?

droidguy1119

12-06-2003, 05:39 PM

Oh. That was another thing. Star Wars does not fall into the Adapted Screenplay category. It would be, despite what you might think, Original Screenplay, were it to come anywhere near getting a nomination.

MovieWes

12-06-2003, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by droidguy1119
Oh. That was another thing. Star Wars does not fall into the Adapted Screenplay category. It would be, despite what you might think, Original Screenplay, were it to come anywhere near getting a nomination.

No, actually jpdill is right about that. The academy rule is that sequels, no matter whether or not they are based on a book, is adapted because they use characters and ideas from the previous film.

MovieWes

12-06-2003, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by jpdill
wtf?

no i don't. what makes you think that?

and how am i a paedophile?

I think it was something you said over at the LOTR forum that made him call you a pedophile.

droidguy1119

12-06-2003, 09:23 PM

Alright, I suppose maybe I am wrong on that one -- I was not aware of how the Academy categorizes sequels.

By the way, MovieWes, just off your sig, they're making a Spaceballs SE DVD.

soulassassin

12-07-2003, 05:17 AM

originally posted By downflow311

thats not what think. i think George Lucas cant write a decent script anymore. all i see happeneing in SW3 is more campy ass dialogue and slow pacing. maybe one or 2 cool moments.
__________________________________________________

hahaha dun worry jdpill about this guy. If he says Starwars 3 has campy dialogue and slow pacing then LOTR has boring dialogue even slower pacing and less than satisfying VFX. Ep3 is gonna be the darkest of all Starwars films n will be the best one as it's gonna have the most saber fights ever seen in a starwars film n the visual FX is better than anything LOTR has to offer and i fink the story is gonna be more than satisfying. Is it just downflow311 or does every LOTR fan just hate science fiction movies? LOTR isn't the best film ever in my eyes i reckon even the matrix is better than that fairytale. And who cares if LOTR has more awards won than Starwars. It's what the fans thinks coz it will be them who makes a movie successful and not the critics. Afterall LOTR isn't original, Peter Jackson just made a book-to-movie conversion. Yes LOTR is a good film but comparing it with the trilogy that has stood the test of time (20 yrs to be precise) just makes me laugh. Anyway once ROTK shows onscreen n every1 watches it, that will be the end of it, no more of it, it will be forgotten. As for starwars HA who knows when it will end. Did you know that the American Missile Defence system that they are currently studying and testing is named Starwars, i wonder where they got that name from? :)

jpdill

12-07-2003, 08:48 AM

Niner2k

12-07-2003, 06:59 PM

Whatever jpdill starwars isnt almighty anymore and the LOTR will never be forgotten just cause you think so why dont you just come out admit you see LOTR as the one threat to starwars then we will know why you always trying to compare the 2 trilogys if you dislike LOTR so much why do you keep bringing it up in a starwars post and remember this is just the beginning for the LOTR cause remember the Hobbit it will be made new line will get the rights so no will forget rings in my opinion you talk so much about rings you dont deserve to own any of the dvds and you should hells not go see ROTK cause you just a moron who cant give credit where credit is do and admit the Rings blows aways the prequels by a long shot not even EP3 will be able to save it the trilogys!

Bucket101Proof

12-08-2003, 10:48 AM

Yeh - that's how i feel. Thank you.

After Christmas 2004, when everybody gets the ROTK EE DVD, that's it. It's over.

People will return to STAR WARS, and if Ep 3 is good, which it WILL be, then people will want more. Then Lucas does the TV series, releases alot more books, etc.

At the end of the day, STAR WARS will be more complete than LOTR is, as STAR WARS is not only restricted to one person. If Tolkien let anybody write official LOTR books, then it would be even more popular today.

But STAR WARS is open to anyone, and that's the reason why it'll always be popular. LOTR i'm afraid will die down within the next generation - my daughter/son (when i have one) wouldn't want to watch it, as common day slang is becoming normal, and people don't want to watch long boring material.

The reasons why all the STAR WARS films are good and popular is because it's future proof. LOTR is solely made for this generation, and that's it.

Also, i prefer the fact that the STAR WARS characters don't speak or write in English - i like the idea that it's a different world, but we have so much in common.

You have a very narrow view of what constitutes a solid, lasting story. Peter Jackson did not just take a book and make it into a movie. He took a book that many considered unfilmable and made what is probably going to go down as the greatest trilogy of all time (read the advanced reviews on ROTK. Almost every single one of them mentions this trilogy as greater than anything that has come before.)

As much as you may hate to hear it, the PT has not been very well received by fans or critics. Personally, I love the PT so far, but I don't think it will be remembered as much as the LOTR 10 years from now. It's an important story to me, but to the general public it's not. The LOTR films thus far have been highly acclaimed. Sure they make alot of money, but it's money well deserved. Peter Jackson has done literally the impossible. The LOTR trilogy was a massive undertaking, and he pulled it off. I 'm afraid you're gravely mistaken that after the ROTK:EE is released that everyone will just forget about LOTR. Will there be books, a TV series, etc? Probably not, but that's because these 3 movies can stand on their own. Peter Jackson, much like George Lucas 25 years ago, has made cinematic history. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that Jackson's acheivment is greater than Lucas'. Of course, time will only tell, but I urge you to invest a little more time and faith in these stories and not just write them off as "long and boring."

Niner2k

12-08-2003, 07:26 PM

well said Lord of the Rings will never die!

Bucket101Proof

12-08-2003, 09:21 PM

well said Lord of the Rings will never die!

While I despise the fact that this has turned into a LOTR vs. SW thread sometimes things just need to be said. Why isn't it possible for the two to co-exist? I love both, but in different ways. It's impossible to tell whether or not the LOTR trilogy will be as highly regarded 10 years from now as it is today, but if you read the literature coming out about these particular films you'll see that they've struck a deep chord in our culture, much the way Star Wars did back in 1977. While I love every Star Wars film, the LOTR hits a more emotional chord with me as of right now. 5 years from now that could change. I doubt it, but it's possible. But it's also possible that I'll hate Episode III and Star Wars will become less important to me than in the past. Again I doubt it, but the possibility is there.

My point is, jdpill, you have no basis to say that everyone will just forget about LOTR after next year, because these films have become ingrained into our culture. The story is timeless. The biggest complement I can give Peter Jackson is that he made me care about a story I never cared about before. I had never read any of the LOTR books and never wanted to. I went into FOTR with a clean slate. The power of this story is so grand that nothing can touch it, not even Star Wars. I'm dedicated to seeing the final chapter in a story that I've spent two years investing time in, which is an absolute magnificent feat of the director and all involved in the making of these movies, seeing as I never would've given LOTR a second thought before the movies.

Anyway, enough of this. If you like it you like it, if not that's cool to. I believe you were talking about Episode III, correct? Which, by the way, I cannot wait for.

Oh, and I"m looking forward to the Ani/Obi duel the most. ;)

soulassassin

12-09-2003, 05:09 AM

Bucket101Proof you have a good view on both films. But as for LOTR considered unfilmable, that was what the author said as an excuse NOT to make the book into a movie because he didn't want (which ever directors prior to the films) to screw up his work. As you can see HE was proven wrong, any film or book can be considered unfilmable until they are made. Don't get me wrong I like LOTR n i'm looking forward to seeing ROTK, but i'm more of a science-fiction fan, that is why i consider The Matrix trilogy n starwars my favourites more then LOTR. I agree with you that Ep 1 wasn't really well received by every1 but i liked it anyway n i liked Ep 2 much much more. Critics never liked any starwars films and yet each one was very successful. As for the LOTR the story and set pieces and characters were already pre-set there for making Peter's work easier as all he had to do was translate the book onto the big screen. As for starwars that was PURE imagination. And believe it or not the Starwars trilogy/saga will remain one of the best movies created of all time not only because it revolutionized special FX back then but also because it redefined science fiction and i can happily say that both LOTR and the Matrix can also be up there with starwars. Please dun think that i am an anti-LOTR, i am not critizing LOTR i'm just saying that it's hard to compare them both, as fans of both sides have their own views of either films negative or positive.

As for Ep 3 i really can't wait, i wanna see Darth Sidious fight for the first time n it's been confirmed by Rick McCallum that the new villain will fight with 2 lightsabers. And there will be 4 major lightsaber fight scenes and seeing Vader on the big screen again gives me goosebumps.

Bucket101Proof

12-09-2003, 10:33 AM

As for the LOTR the story and set pieces and characters were already pre-set there for making Peter's work easier as all he had to do was translate the book onto the big screen.

This is a very common misconception. While you state your points well and put up a good argument, this is a false way of thinking.

Peter Jackson did not just have to translate the book onto the big screen. Have you ever read any of the LOTR books? Putting those novels into script form was a tremendous undertaking, done magnificently by Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens and Peter Jackson. It's not just a simple task of writing down what's in the books, it's a matter of keeping in line with Tolkien's vision and staying true to the heart of the books. It's not easy to adapt a pre-existing work. I know, I've tried it. So far the movies have not only lived up to fans' expectations, but surpassed them. That's an amazing accomplishment. The LOTR trilogy has been a success with not only the critics but with the fans as well. That really can't be said for Star Wars or The Matrix. Now yes, you're right, it comes down to personal opinion, and I highly respect yours because you defend it well. But the fact of the matter is that PJ took on the biggest challenge in cinematic history and overcame it. We've never seen anything like this before, and chances are we won't again for a long time. Take care.

flukeman

12-09-2003, 12:03 PM

First, let me say that droidguy1119, your views are like a breath of fresh air and I agree with them wholeheartedly.

Saying that LOTR will have no staying power is a load of rubbish. It's lasted 50 years so far, and generations will continue to enjoy it. People who are still intelligent enough to read and be captivated by a long story and beautiful words will keep on reading it. And people will keep on watching the movies. They are gorgeous pieces of art that tell a compelling story, and to say that they will wear themselves out is absolutely ridiculous.

Now on to Star Wars. . .I meant when I said in the poll - I'm looking forward most to the end of the prequels.

I was so in love with SW when I first saw it 10 years ago- shown over 3 nights on a tiny little tv. I bought the tapes, watched them over and over, bought merchandise, read the books. I used to worship George Lucas, and I wanted to be a 3D animator. I was so excited when I heard about the prequels. Now as Ep. 3 approaches, I couldn't give a rat's *** about it.

The difference is caring. I cared so much about the OT characters. I cared about the story. The problem with the prequels is that I just do not care enough about the new characters, even the pivotal ones. Wherever that fault may lie, writing, story, whatever - there it is. All the fancy shmancy *cool* effects in the world will not get me to care about the characters.

jdpill said that the SW universe is forever expanding, with new writers and characters and places...I think it needs to go exactly in the opposite direction. There are just too many characters! Too many things to concetrate, too many little tangents. I didn't know that half the characters in the prequels had names, but there they are. Throw in more books and a tv series and it gets even worse. And all that jumbled mess is taking away from the pivotal main story. I'm not objecting to new characters - they are needed - but if I don't care about them, they don't add one bit to the story.

droidguy1119

12-09-2003, 02:09 PM

*claps for Bucket101Proof*

I don't know where you came from, but I thank you. I am eternally grateful for a sane voice.

Bucket101Proof

12-09-2003, 03:40 PM

Anytime droidguy, anytime.

Malitos_Sahkir

12-09-2003, 04:04 PM

The LOTR trilogy has been popular, and a best selling book(s) for 50 years. The film's are no different, Peter Jackson and the Cast of the movie knew they were going to make History. So it had to be perfect to the T in Peter Jackson's vision for the Trilogy. It will be remembered for decades to come.
'Lucas did the same thing 25 years ago with the Original Star Wars Trilogy. That is going to be remembered forever, the same as LOTR. The prequals however will die after Episode III. Don't argue that, because they will. When was the last time anything was spoken about Episode I?
IF Ep. I and Ep. II were just a set up for Ep. III then 'Lucas has made a fatal mistake. He hasn't done the hard yards with the first two. There is no way possible for Ep. III to be better than LOTR. Why? Because LOTR is a Trilogy, and each film in that Trilogy has met or passed everyones expectation's. ONE movie cannot be better than THREE. No matter how good YOU THINK Ep. III will be. I've probably been a Star Wars fan longer than you have jpdill, I liked Ep. I when many didn't, my expectations for Ep. II were very high. At first I blamed it on Hayden C. for the film's downfall. But then I saw Shattered Glass, and my god can he act. So, there is only one person to blame, 'Lucas.
Peter Jackson did not steal thing's from Star Wars, saying that just makes you a bigger moron than you already are. The prequals have not set the standard for special effects, WETA with their work on LOTR have.
My advice to you jpdill? You're going to love Ep. III no matter how bad it is. Do you really care what other people think? No. So stop argueing, and stop trusting all of these rumors. Because they are just that; RUMORS.
PS. As for my saying the entire LOTR Trilogy will be a cinematic marvel, it is pretty much a no brainer that RotK is going to be fantastic.

soulassassin

12-10-2003, 04:14 AM

flukeman

12-10-2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by soulassassin
Can anyone here tell me if we're going to see Sauron in the flesh and in action in ROTK??

Nope, according to rumors and actual reviews, Sauron will just be the eye.

Bucket101Proof

12-10-2003, 02:40 PM

Actually Malitos_Sahkir i'd just like to correct you that it wasn't LOTR that set new standards in special FX it was the Matrix' John Gaeta and his ESC team that have revolutionized special FX. By introducing bullet time in the first movie and the digital creations and manipulation of multiple cgi humans which in my eyes are almost perfect in the second movie and pioneered both techniques seamlessly in Revolutions. ROTK MASSIVE technique has actually already been done by the Mummy sequel, LOTR just improved upon it. But nevertheless it's good to see movies like these coming out and improving Special FX techniques every year.

I hardly think that Gaeta and his team revolutionized special effects. First of all they did not invent bullet time, that technique was around before The Matrix, they just improved upon the technique (much like WETA improved the MASSIVE program). Second of all the special fx in The Matrix have not aged well at all. The super-duper wire kung-fu action is as cheesy as you get, and watching Keanu Reeves dodge bullets looks about as cool as a roller blading, glowing Olivia Newton-John. The effects in Reloaded were much better, but the CGI humans looked so out of place and phoney that I thought the just used dummy's. By no means am I saying that The Matrix effects are bad, per se, but they are not as revolutionary as John "I like to pat myself on the back" Gaeta (and you) claim them to be.

By contrast, the MASSIVE program integrates CGI almost flawlessly into the films. The LOTR trilogy has set precendence for CGI usage in movies, just like Jurassic Park did 10 years ago. Of course sometimes you can tell when a special effects technique is being used, but that goes for every film that relies on these techniques in order to tell a story. It's not like the prequels where you can say in every scene "Wow that's a cool looking digital backround."

'Course it all comes down to opinion yet again I guess!! Take care.

jpdill

12-10-2003, 03:08 PM

Actually Lucas revolutionised cinema technology - if he didn't use blue screen in Young Indiana Jones, it never would have become popular, and Episode I, II and III, and LOTR and The Matrix would never have been made

Want proof? Look on the net. Lucas is to praise for CGI technology.

droidguy1119

12-10-2003, 07:14 PM

Bucket101Proof -- they did essentially invent Bullet Time -- maybe not the concept but they were certainly the first to excecute it, because John Gaeta devised the way to do it. ILM, Digital Domain and all the other big special effects houses were stumped by the concept and all they could think of to make it work was a "camera strapped to a rocket" concept. Watch the great documentary "The Matrix Revisited" for more info.

And to jpdill -- f--- Lucas and his CGI. His CGI is what is turning the new Star Wars into an abomination -- even if everything isn't CGI, it all looks like it, and a lot of is it cheesy. While WETA has used digital effects on LotR, it seems like a lot less, and the real point is -- as an audience, we care.

jpdill

12-11-2003, 02:49 AM

I'm like "whatever" in a none-female-american-teen way...

soulassassin

12-11-2003, 03:10 AM

Actually Bucket101Proof John Gaeta did Invent the Bullet time effect, i haven't seen any other films prior to the Matrix that used that effect. And once Matrix was released the whole movie industry was amazed, and new movies either tried copying it (Charlie's Angels) or make fun of it(Scary Movie). So yes they did revolutionized special FX which hasn't been seen before. Maybe the concept was around before but certainly not onscreen n it certainly wasn't called Bullet-Time. Hence that is why Matrix got the Oscar award for Special effects instead of Starwars: Phantom Menace.

:( Really??? because I liked how sauron was at the epilogue/intro of LOTR: Fellowship of the ring, it would be a big bang at the end ROTK to see sauron again if you know what i mean. Thanks anyway Flukeman

Bucket101Proof

12-11-2003, 10:29 AM

So yes they did revolutionized special FX which hasn't been seen before. Maybe the concept was around before but certainly not onscreen n it certainly wasn't called Bullet-Time. Hence that is why Matrix got the Oscar award for Special effects instead of Starwars: Phantom Menace.

Like I said, they improved a concept that had been used before, much like WETA improved the MASSIVE program.

I think bullet time is a highly overrated and overused technique anyway. I mean when I watched the first Matrix the other day I was surprised at how silly it looked when Neo dodged those bullets on top of the building. It's only been 4 years since that film and already the sfx have aged horribly. Ah well, can't please veryone I guess!

jpdill

12-11-2003, 12:16 PM

But "MASSIVE" wasn't created by WETA.

They used MASSIVE in the gungan battle for Ep 1. Weta just took the idea and have made it appear like they did it.

droidguy1119

12-11-2003, 01:01 PM

Whereas John Gaeta did create Bullet Time -- nobody before him had gotten it to work. Period.

soulassassin

12-12-2003, 08:13 PM

droidguy1119 I couldn't agree more.

Bucket101Proof the bullet time did not appear silly, it may have seemed strange to you because it was a feat that you never saw before. But for me i was awed by it, and it gives me that tingling feeling down the spine especially when i watch it with other people. I guess it's just a matter of perpective. :)

droidguy1119

12-13-2003, 06:12 PM

Well, yeah, but he is right that now it's grossly overused -- and they cheat it! It doesn't look like the bullet time in The Matrix because they dropped the still camera device and have found computer ways to achieve the same thing -- which sort of defeats the magic of it.

downflow311

12-14-2003, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by jpdill
They used MASSIVE in the gungan battle for Ep 1. Weta just took the idea and have made it appear like they did it.

^ bull**** jpdill.

droidguy1119

12-14-2003, 03:18 PM

He's right and he's wrong, I think. The special effects companies have a pretty good alliance, and I'm sure Weta created the MASSIVE program, but they may have lent it to Star Wars for the fight -- I recall something about this on one of the DVDs.

But I know Weta created MASSIVE. ILM did not. (One of ILM's staff created Photoshop, though.)

jpdill

12-14-2003, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by downflow311
^ bull**** jpdill.

Right. Really.

Look at the documentation of MASSIVE - i would also try to contact some of the people at WETA. One of my MSN contacts is a receptionist there (Kathy) so think before you speak.

Here's what i've found out over the past year:

- WETA had to consult ILM are pretty much most the SFX scenes in TTT and a bit in ROTK.

- WETA also agree with what i say - if it wasn't for the fact LOTR is released at Christmas, they would never have won any awards. If STAR WARS Episode II was a Christmas film, and they completed it at the same time as WETA did TTT, it would have won best SFX, as SW's R and D is alot greater.

- MASSIVE is not an original programme. It works from a previous system which was used in SW Episode I, for the Naboo battle. WETA bought the rights to make a spin-off programme, hired people to make it, and used it. It's a better version than the one used for Naboo Battle. HOWEVER, the one that is being used for Episode III is the best so far.

- Also, for some reason, the WETA team know abit about Episode III, as during the filming in Oz, they asked ILM. The Wookie Scenes are being purposely left for filming after ROTK, as ILM want to see what ROTK and Matrix Rev.'s looked like. There is going to be a huge battle of Wookies vs. Empire. They also told me that this new version of MASSIVE is going to be used in a heavy urban enviroment, so there's more proof for a Coruscant battle.

- She also told me that the oliphant (sp) scene was great looking, however they thought it looked a bit fake, so they're currently updating it for the EE release.

- They've said that King Kong will look great, but because it's not perfect, WETA and Universal are bringing in ILM workers to help. The problem is that the best CGI-animal workers at ILM are working next year on the animals in STAR WARS and JURASSIC PARK IV, so there won't be enough time for them to really help WETA.

- Another thing WETA told me was that it's going to be a busy year for them because they don't have many people on their team.

Ok.

If you don't believe me, i can see why. However, eventually you'll know if i'm right or wrong.

droidguy1119

12-14-2003, 03:33 PM

Just because Weta talks to ILM about special effects doesn't make ILM better. It also doesn't mean Weta stole the MASSIVE program. Like I said, it just means the special effects houses have a friendly companionship. I'm sure even people who work at ILM like to go to LotR and watch the movies and go "wow, hey, that's pretty cool."

(And please, don't say you think ILM goes to LotR and laughs.)

jpdill

12-14-2003, 03:49 PM

I don't think that.

And they didn't steal MASSIVe, the bought it. It's different. Anyway, ILM are pioneers of CGI.

After they create most the programmes, they sell it off as products. Most of WETA's programmes are off-shelves and created originally for ILM.

jpdill

12-14-2003, 03:51 PM

In all fact, WETA is a good company, but after Kong, it'll die down, as it's in the wrong location.

ILM are getting bigger and bigger, and as more films use ILM, and in 5 years, it'll be over for the small companies.

I think WETA will be a TV-SFX company, doing CGI for TV shows like STAR TREK.

droidguy1119

12-14-2003, 03:57 PM

Weta has been around for many, many years. I assume you are aware that Weta is not a new company, and that it has been doing special effects since the 90's.

And, of course, ILM is a pioneer -- but more people aren't using ILM, since ILM is currently not the leader in the industry. Two years in a row they've lost the Academy Award to Weta -- Weta's big. And Weta's certainly not going to die down, since Jackson loves Weta, and as long as Jackson's making big special effects movies, Weta will be at least Jackson's haven.

Weta is now one of the effects leaders in the industry. And it's not "in the wrong location" -- that's just pure ridiculousness. So the company is Australia. Just because a movie studio or effects house isn't in LA doesn't mean it's "in the wrong location" -- there isn't one.

jpdill

12-14-2003, 04:16 PM

Ok. Facts:

WETA is in New Zealand, somewhere where it is in-conveniant to have a SFX company. It's not near Hollywood, and doesn't have many different offices all around the world.

ILM have ALOT more films using them. They're doing CGI films, they do HARRY POTTER, they do STAR WARS, they do alot. But you do realise without ILM's help, TTT would not be what it was.

ILM haven't won the previous Oscars because of TIME. Their entry, Episode II, was completed in 2001, and a whole year before TTT came out. If it was released at the same time, i think SW would have won.

In 2001, their entry was Pearl Harbour. It was alright looking and good SFX, however the film came out before FOTR.

This year, ILM don't really have an entry. Peter Pan may be the entry, however it's SFX team wasn't as huge as SW's, so it may not win. I think WETA will win again, but ILM will next year, as they have a few HUGE films, such as PoA, which is a really really digital film. I've seen the sets, and the amount of blue screen - arghhh! Too much blue.

HP3 will look cool, and if it's really good (the animatronics looked really good), it should win Best Special Effects.

In 2005, ILM will win, as Jurassic Park IV is coming out late in the year, providing more time. With a huge team, it'll easily win. Possibly however, STAR WARS will win, as it's SFX are as realistic as it gets now.

I think Universal will have to choose between King Kong and Jurassic Park, as it's their films, and they're the 2 main runners we know of now for Best SFX. I think they'll choose JPIV, as if the films come out roughly at the same time, ILM are more likely to win.

Bond AK 45

12-14-2003, 04:26 PM

What am I lookin forward most in Epi 3? See if Epi 3 will be the only prequal in the Star Wars saga to not let me down.

droidguy1119

12-14-2003, 04:31 PM

The Academy looks for more in their Special Effects Award than just the technical aspect. While Star Wars might have looked a little better, that's not the point -- the point is the special effects in LotR wasn't just a tool, it was part of the story, and it meant something. That's why LotR won. Time has nothing to do with it.

I am not saying ILM is a bad company. But they're not the best. If you were to look at their tools, you would discover ILM feeds off as many big effects houses as those houses feed off ILM -- it's a cycle. ILM does not have a monopoly. The Matrix, for instance, is one of the biggest special effects movies of the last 10 years, and ILM was stumped by bullet time.

And you don't even know what Kong will look like. Jurassic Park's effects are no longer revolutionary -- when we'd never seen dinosaurs on-screen, then it was big news. Jurassic Park III certainly wasn't nominated, and neither was Lost World (if I remember). They'll push Jackson because of his Special Effects Academy Awards nomination history -- and I bet Weta will win again.

jpdill

12-14-2003, 04:41 PM

Universal will have to choose between WETA and ILM. But seeing how Universal own a huge share of ILM, i think they'll have to choose ILM.

You see, after King Kong, i doubt Universal will use WETA for their films. It's only choosing them as it's director wants to use them.

However, they still use ILM. They will always use ILM. But if they choose WETA, ILM may quit on Universal. If they do that, Universal will lose lots of money, as having WETA doing SFX is alot of money as they live so far away.

Financially, Universal will choose ILM, as they loose less. That's if ILM choose to put JPIV forward. If they put SW3 down, it's not a big deal, as it's a Fox film.

droidguy1119

12-14-2003, 04:48 PM

Universal will choose King Kong, because ILM will push Star Wars.

jpdill

12-14-2003, 05:50 PM

But the SFX for SW and the film itself has a deadline for Christmas 2004. Jurassic Park's SFX need to be finished by Autumn 2005. If JPIV has better SFX, ILM will push that forward.

And if ILM push that forward, there's the possibility that WETA won't be nominated. That, or they release King Kong in 2006/JP4 in 2006.

If released inb 2006, the film will be out in the summer, and the SFX will have had 2 years of work. It would win the 2006 Oscars for sure, which will be held in 2007.

droidguy1119

12-14-2003, 07:18 PM

JPIV will not have better effects. Weta will definitely be nominated -- King Kong is an effects movie and there's nothing else to stop it. With Kong a digital character, assuming the movie's any good that's a nomination right there. Trust me -- Weta will not fade away.

Bucket101Proof

12-14-2003, 07:49 PM

jdpill, do you realize how utterly ignorant you sound?

You think WETA will just disappear in a few years? Are you insane? Looks like your blind devotion to anything with the Star Wars or ILM label may be destroying some of your braincells. The Two Towers effects blow away anything seen in Episode II, although the Battle of Geonosis was a pretty astounding piece of work. However, Helms Deep makes that look like a cut scene from Starcraft. From what I've heard the Battle of Pelennor fields and Minas Tirith in Return of the King are the biggest and best battles to grace the screen - ever. This has been agreed upon by many publications and I've read numerous accounts by fans and journalists alike who have been more than blown away by WETA's special effects wizardry as seen in ROTK. This can only mean that WETA will get bigger as time goes on. Yes, it's probably true that Peter Jackson asked for ILM's assistance on certain things, but that's because ILM is an experienced company where WETA is still in it's infant stage, a 10 year old infant it may be.

And what's all this nonsense about location? Location doesn't mean crap when your company produces the best product. And whose to say that WETA won't have offices in LA or New York sometime soon? Your logic is fundamentally flawed. WETA won the Academy Award not one but 2 years in a row and you're saying that the company is going under? Bullocks!! What complete and utter nonsense. I think you're just upset that there's a SFK company out there that's better than ILM and produces higher quality work. I know the way you think, because I thoguht the same thing about a year ago. I too was blinded by a devotion to Star Wars and refused to think that anything else was better. Then I opened my eyes and realized that Star Wars isn't the cream of the crop anymore. LOTR is. I still love Star Wars, don't get me wrong, and I can't wait 'till Ep. III, but Peter Jackson's trilogy is going to go down as a cinematic milestone, not the PT.

jpdill

12-14-2003, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by droidguy1119
JPIV will not have better effects. Weta will definitely be nominated -- King Kong is an effects movie and there's nothing else to stop it. With Kong a digital character, assuming the movie's any good that's a nomination right there. Trust me -- Weta will not fade away.

JPIV is set in an urban enviroment. It will be more original CGI, as we've never really seen beasts walking down a public street, have we?

But we've seen them in jungles hundreds of times.

Bucket101Proof

12-14-2003, 08:07 PM

JPIV is set in an urban enviroment. It will be more original CGI, as we've never really seen beasts walking down a public street, have we?

Did they not release Godzilla where you come from? Of Jurassic Park 2 which featured a T-Rex stalking the citizens of New York City?

Oh, and in case you didn't know, King Kong also takes place in a city. Remember the classic image of the huge gorilla climbing the Empire State Building? With Jackson and WETA behind the project you damn well better believe they'll create yet another classic image in that vein. Can't say the same thing for JP4, as JP3 was a complete and utter embarrassment to the first film altogether.

droidguy1119

12-14-2003, 10:08 PM

Yeah. JP2 was so-so -- until the T-Rex got on land, which was just revolting, a complete Godzilla rip-off -- and that's the part you're hyping. Also disgusting was JPIII. It just plain sucked.

Bucket101Proof

12-14-2003, 10:25 PM

JPIV is set in an urban enviroment. It will be more original CGI, as we've never really seen beasts walking down a public street, have we?

But we've seen them in jungles hundreds of times.

I'm sorry this is just such an absurd statement I had to reply yet again, even if my post has no point.

jpdill

12-15-2003, 02:39 AM

They did release Gozilla, but you'll find the public never really were trapped with Godzilla - they ran away/evacuated.

Bucket101Proof

12-15-2003, 09:42 AM

...and your point is?

jpdill

12-15-2003, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by droidguy1119
Yeah. JP2 was so-so -- until the T-Rex got on land, which was just revolting, a complete Godzilla rip-off -- and that's the part you're hyping. Also disgusting was JPIII. It just plain sucked.

Droidguy - Godzilla didn't come out in 97, it came out after JP2.

They didn't rip anyone off.

Bucket101Proof

12-15-2003, 11:52 AM

Droidguy - Godzilla didn't come out in 97, it came out after JP2.

You do realize there was a Japanese movie made oh I'd say around 1940, in which a gigantic lizard stalked the streets of Tokyo, which is a city. The name of this movie? Godzilla.

The end of JP2 wasn't a direct rip-off of the original Godzilla, it was a tribute.

droidguy1119

12-15-2003, 07:23 PM

lol, like Roger Ebert says, in writing, it's plagiarism, in filmmaking, it's an homage...

Well, I meant that it played like a Godzilla rip-off. I didn't like it.

And Bucket101Proof is exactly right -- King Kong is a monster-in-the-city movie, and not only that, it's King Kong 1 -- There hasn't been, except for apparently a remake someone mentioned, that I haven't seen and I assume most of the popluation hasn't seen, any King Kong-like movies in a long time. Peter Jackson is a highly acclaimed director, and also a pioneer in the effects industry now, whether you believe it or not. Universal will push the fresh King Kong, with the Academy-Award-winning team at Weta, based on reputation, over the stale Jurassic Park IV, which will likely simply be a summer popcorn movie and not an Academy Award kind of film anyway.

Because you must realize, Universal has to build a platform, costing money, time and resources -- and King Kong will very likely be eligible for more than the effects award (acting, directing, score and sound effects come to mind).

soulassassin

12-16-2003, 02:23 AM

I fink the only two SFX companies that will win this years award are either LOTR Weta comapny or The Matrix' John Gaeta 'ESC' company. But i fink John Gaeta and his team will get the award as they are the only company to really push todays SFX whithin the last four years thats why ILM was shocked to hear The Matrix won the award over their starwars film. John and his team were absent for 2 years, so of course the first 2 LOTR got the awards. Correct me if i'm wrong but did both LOTR win the SFX award?? But anyway ROTK will have a muchhh tougher competition as it has two matrix movies to compete with, although only 1 will be submitted i fink which is Revolutions. But i believe John Gaeta's 'ESC' team deserves to win it as their SFX looks much better and is more complex then LOTR excluding ROTK as i have not seen it yet. Yes TTT FX were very good but some scenes like with the big tree walkin with the 2 hobbits looked kinda rough and could have used more work, and most of the MASSIVE FX that was used in TTT was mostly far away views. And i hope ROTK's big MASSIVE battle scene at the end or whichever won't look as cluttered as "The Mummy Returns' MASSIVE scene. All in all they are all good SFX companies.

soulassassin

12-16-2003, 02:33 AM

originally posted by droidguy1119

Well, yeah, but he is right that now it's grossly overused -- and they cheat it! It doesn't look like the bullet time in The Matrix because they dropped the still camera device and have found computer ways to achieve the same thing -- which sort of defeats the magic of it.
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Actually droidguy1119 Bullet-time has always been created in the computer. The only real aspect of it were the actors. So they haven't cheated they just merely perfected it. Yes they use that camera rig but actually controlling the camera where you want it to go can only be done digitally thus using cgi to create bullet time. If you watch the doco in the first matrix movie you will know what i'm talkin about. Yes they used a lot more bullet time in Reloaded and Revolutions and for longer periods of time but thats to be expected as they are simply improving more on whats already been established. Some people think it has been overused but for me it's perfect, it wasn't too short and too long it was just right. I actually wanted more but.................

jpdill

12-16-2003, 02:45 AM

Next year, I think ILM will win.

They're still the most popular, and they have many films out next year.

Their nomination will either be Harry Potter 3, Van Helsing or The Day After Tomorrow...

jpdill

12-16-2003, 02:48 AM

And in 2005, it'll be between ILM and WETA.

Most likely for ILM, STAR WARS Episode III or JURASSIC PARK IV. They chose Pearl Harbour above JP3 last time - they may do the same again. But JP4 will be more realistic i think as it's got 6 months difference between release.

WETA's will be King Kong, if it goes to plan. It may fall behind schedule and be released in like Feb. Usually all Universal films are like that. JP4 was meant to start filming in October, but now it's being filmed next year.

droidguy1119

12-16-2003, 01:14 PM

ILM will push Star Wars, simply based on the volume of effects shots.

Secondly, dinosaurs will always look the same. Star Wars heads to different worlds, therefore the chance that the effects will be different than those in Episode II is much higher.

Spawn

12-16-2003, 08:51 PM

The Dawn of the Empire

Darth_Venom

12-21-2003, 10:50 AM

STAR WARS EPISODE I : THE PHANTOM MEANCE
STAR WARS EPISODE II : ATTACK OF THE CLONES
STAR WARS EPISODE III : REVENGE OF THE SITH
STAR WARS EPISODE IV : A NEW HOPE
STAR WARS EPISODE V : THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
STAR WARS EPISODE VI : RETURN OF THE JEDI.
episode 3 title fits in nice with them.

Malitos_Sahkir

12-23-2003, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by jpdill
And in 2005, it'll be between ILM and WETA.

Most likely for ILM, STAR WARS Episode III or JURASSIC PARK IV. They chose Pearl Harbour above JP3 last time - they may do the same again. But JP4 will be more realistic i think as it's got 6 months difference between release.

WETA's will be King Kong, if it goes to plan. It may fall behind schedule and be released in like Feb. Usually all Universal films are like that. JP4 was meant to start filming in October, but now it's being filmed next year.
If you're talking 2005, WETA's will be Narnia over King Kong. Or both... Depends which companies are doing them.