Has this been addressed...

[nightbringer]

Ok if this question has been answered, then I apologize for created a thread about it. I was watching Reloaded the other night and the thought accured to me...why do the machines let people who have been freed from the Matrix live? For instance when Neo is Freed in the first movie, they just flush him down the tubes as we can assume they do everyone else. So the question is, why let them live, why not kill them. The machines wouldn't have any resistance if they killed the humans the rejected the matrix. Like the architect said, 99% of people accept the Matrix, even though it's on a subconcious level, so it's not like they would be losing a lot of power by killing off the 1%. Then again, if they did kill off all those who reject the matrix then there wouldn't be a point for making these movies would there be? But if anyone can answer why the machines let them live I would be very interested in hearing the reason.

[kel thuzad]

Uh...apology accepted.

[Fanible]

Some people wake up from the Matrix probably. The machine checks out the human, unplugs its plugs, and flushes it down the toilet so to speak. Because essentially, to them, it's just a dead battery. Just routine. They don't know that they took a pill and someone's going to pick them up.

Under normal circumstances, the humans flushed probably do end up dying. They just get flushed into a waste full of water. They probably drown, starve to death, or who knows what. Remember, they don't have very good sight, their muscles don't work, or anything. After it all is done, their dead corpses get used to feed into the living.

The machines don't need to like, stab them in the head, and THEN flush them or anything.

[G-Matrix]

speaking of the architect....I got a say that the why of the destruction of Zion and the reload of the matrix hasn't been answer, only the reload but the why of Zion? Can anyone refresh my meory if this has been discuss like a 1000 of times before

[Fanible]

Why the destruction of Zion? Because it wouldn't make any sense to leave this huge population of humans sitting there. Just wipe them out, let the One, and the new 23 people rebuild for the next hundred years, or for however many years. Then they do it again. This provides the machines with the Reload, and the humans the illusion that they have freedom and choice.

[Wolfgang]

Is it not stated in the first film that the humans are just flushed down and later used as food sources for the living? I thought that was explained.

[Boiiinng]

here's your answer

more and more humans would be released exponentially over time, destabilizing the Matrix and the system would crash

to stop the crash, they need to reload the Matrix with better code from a human, so that it's harder for other humans to wake up

the One has this code

his code is assimilated, reloading the Matrix

however, to make sure the One has a reason to reload the Matrix, there needs to be a humanity to protect, therefore the people of Zion need to grow at a faster rate than just procreation, so more and more people need to be released, remember them saying that they released more people in the past 6 months than the past 6 years, the Matrix is losing people too fast and so they send the army, and the Oracle sends for the One

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by Wolfgang
Is it not stated in the first film that the humans are just flushed down and later used as food sources for the living? I thought that was explained.

the ones that die within the Matrix are liquified to feed the living, but the ones that "wake up" are just flushed to help Zion flourish

[Malitos_Sahkir]

It all depends... Most that wake up are flushed, I assume, however in the Animatrix the runner in world record after waking up was pludged back in.

[Boiiinng]

Originally posted by Malitos_Sahkir
It all depends... Most that wake up are flushed, I assume, however in the Animatrix the runner in world record after waking up was pludged back in.

I don't take anything serious that wasn't written by the Wachowski's, and World Record wasn't.

[Fanible]

I agree with that.

But for the people even dying in the Matrix, they still get flushed to the same place. Anyone that wakes up or dies in the Matrix, their bodies get flushed. They're a useless battery now.

The only reason that certain human beings that get woken up, like Neo, is because they took a pill, which then provided the location in which their body was. This provided means for them to go to the area where there flushed body would land, so they could rescue them and bring them aboard.

So yes, im sure under normal circumstances, all bodies that get flushed, the corpses simply get melted down and used to feed into the living. Grant they don't have someone that's able to pick them up.

Honestly it's kinda horrific if you think about it. If you woke up for some reason, and have no idea what's going. Then you get flushed down, and probably would just end up dying a more than likely painful and/or long death.

[kel thuzad]

No terrible pain...you would drown.

[Fanible]

Out of all the choices of dying, drowning is very low on my list. I couldn't imagine choosing that as a way of commiting suicide.

I think it'd be very horrific waking up, looking all around you seeing the totally unbelievable, no clue why you're there. Then getting pelted by a machine, plugs ripped out of you, then suddenly getting rushed down a tube and into some nasty water. Then proceeding to desperatly trying to get up to the surface, but due to your weakness you can not. You follow up to gulping in some water, trying to hold your breath further. Eventually your lungs give in and you intake more than you can handle. Then you just die from suffocation, loss of any oxygen.

[dogisburning]

Feeding on dead human bodies...that sounds nasty.

[Boiiinng]

i would bet they liquify the dead inside the pod, the tubes sent Neo straight down to what seemed a waste sewer

[nightbringer]

Originally posted by Fanible
Why the destruction of Zion? Because it wouldn't make any sense to leave this huge population of humans sitting there. Just wipe them out, let the One, and the new 23 people rebuild for the next hundred years, or for however many years. Then they do it again. This provides the machines with the Reload, and the humans the illusion that they have freedom and choice.

Exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Why let the humans live so they can even build a resistance. If the machines killed all those that awoke from the matrix, then not a single one could live to rescue others and eventually start a resistance. Also since the machines know there is a resistance, by freeing humans that awake they are simply adding to the resistances numbers. So until I have a decent answer I say again, why let the humans live.

[kel thuzad]

Because no one would accept life in the matrix until they would be aware that they have an option to choose, even on subconscious level, whether they want matrix or resistance. And since people aware of the choice in 99,9 % choose matrix they let people build Zion then simply destroy so it doesn't get too dangerous or because of the Reload.
Listen to the Architect, he says all of this.

[nightbringer]

You answered nothing.

[kel thuzad]

This is what you asked.
Machines can't kill unplugged humans, because if they did, people in the Matrix would in their subconscious level knew that only place for them is the matrix...and they wouldn't assimilate life in the Matrix. This was done with the first "perfect" matrix...Machines let no one survive outside of Matrix."Entire crops were lost". Then intuitive program found an answer...people need to have a constant feeling that they are able to make a choice - matrix or the Real world...once this is accomplished the problem is solved, because 99,9% people choose the matrix to live in.
Now come on and tell me i didn't answer your question...if so please try to explain in other words what are you asking...and listen to Architect once more.

[kel thuzad]

I answered him, didn't I ?

[dogisburning]

Yeah,you did.IMO He just didn't get it.

[matrixobsessed0]

The whole choice issue i think is soley based on life within the Matrix (not outside).......Truman Show for example...his life was scripted.....everyone around him knew what was upposed to happen next except him....He knew something wasn't right...he eventually questioned his life and broke free....In the Matrix, u believe u have complete control of your life (u don't feel like ur in a movie or tv show)..........

The issues of flushing vs killing .......contributes to my multi-matrix theory....those who wake up are in another "stage" of the matrix......How is neo able to destroy sentinels in the "real world"????? Think about it...Those who are "free" from the primary Matrix, think they are truly free (totally free to make their own choices)...This is the ultimate form of control.....Allowing people to believe they can destroy the matrix or truly free those still inside is the perfect form of control...in the minds of the free, there are no controls, but there really are........Bottomline those who are free are still controlled...no need to kill those who wake up

Death......Death is a realistic way of living...without it, the matrix wouldn't be realistic..who's to say that when u die in the matrix u truly die in reality? Again these are "guidelines" set by the matrix......Once a human dies (of lets say natural causes) in the matrix, who's to say that person isn't truly still alive? (supplying power for the machines).....A person can live a lifetime in the matrix meanwhile that "lifetime" might've only been a few years in(real time)...death can be an illusion (death in matrix = coma in reality)

[dogisburning]

NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!Zion is not a 2nd Matrix!!!!!!!

[kel thuzad]

Uh...this is too much...
This is not your theory...every newbie coming here thinks this ...search very past threads and you'll find plenty of arguments directly opposing this (seems logic but is stupid) theory.

[dogisburning]

I see it as an unlogical,stupid,retarded theory that if were real,I'd start saying the Matrix sucks.

[nightbringer]

Originally posted by kel thuzad
This is what you asked.
Machines can't kill unplugged humans, because if they did, people in the Matrix would in their subconscious level knew that only place for them is the matrix...and they wouldn't assimilate life in the Matrix. This was done with the first "perfect" matrix...Machines let no one survive outside of Matrix."Entire crops were lost". Then intuitive program found an answer...people need to have a constant feeling that they are able to make a choice - matrix or the Real world...once this is accomplished the problem is solved, because 99,9% people choose the matrix to live in.
Now come on and tell me i didn't answer your question...if so please try to explain in other words what are you asking...and listen to Architect once more.

Ok first off, your wrong on the failure of the first perfect matrix. It wasn't lost because people who awoke were being killed and people on the inside somehow knew. It failed because people didn't accept the matrix itself. Humans couldn't accept perfection because as Agent Smith put it "the human race defines itself by it's misery" or something close to that. The first matrix was rejected because there was no drama, no strife, no struggle, so there was no challenge. You could get into a lot of philosophical debates about why humans wouldn't accept perfection, but ultimately that's why it was rejected.

Second, you are working under an assumption, which by the way has no supporting evidence in the movies, that humans inside the matrix would know or be aware of people rejecting the matrix and those that did being killed. It's been made pretty clear that those inside the matrix think it's the real world and therefore have no reason to believe or suspect another realm of existence. So simple logic would tell you that those who are in the matrix wouldn't know about anything outside the matrix or that others had awoken from that reality. Hence they wouldn't know if those that awoke were killed. How ****in simple do I have to make this. So I'm saying if the machines were really intelligent they'd just kill any who awoke, so there could never be a resistence, because 99% of the people in the matrix wouldn't have the slightest clue as to whats going on. But since this is a movie and there would be no movie, because there would be no resistence if it were done the way I'm saying we are asked to believe that the mchines simply flush those that awake for some reason. I'm asking what is that reason.don't freaking tell me it's cause the people in the matrix, that's stupid and illogical. Also if the machines know that some that they flush survived and formed a resistence why not just kill all others that awake after that point so the resistence has no chance of growing. Then wipe out the resistence while they are small. The point is I'm hoping to find a better explaination for letting the humans live than, well there wouldn't be a movie if they killed them, or the genius arguement that even though people in the matrix are totallly unaware they are and they are convinced they are in the real world some how magically they would sense the death of another person outside the matrix, in a world they aren't even aware of. That would be like someone on Earth know about the death of some alien on some other world, there is no way you could know because you don't even know they exist.

[kel thuzad]

People in the perfect matrix didn't just die because of what i said...ok, you're right there...Second matrix...Arch:"I was again frustrated by failure"...The answer was found by an intuitive program...blah, blah. People accepted the matrix when they were given a choice...what the hell do you think Architect is talking about ? You have question, yet you don't want to hear an answer. ALL the people are connected to one giant system...it's not so impossible to know for them somehow what's going on(even if they aren't aware of it)...i'm not so good in english to fully explain what i have on mind but all you seek is answered by the Architect. It's so simple...People, You have to live in the Matrix...NOOOOO.....People do you want to live in the matrix or the Real world ?...Matrix, of course. And it's not like none of the people know about the matrix...there are some who feel something isn't right...it is those who eventually get free...it's better for machines to get rid of them from the system than having them do some nasty job or so - this is just another small reason (uh rather stupid).

[dogisburning]

The answer to this is in the spoilers you can find around here...but it's best just to wait for 11.5...

[Fanible]

The people that start realising the Matrix, is the Matrix, get help from humans on the outside, that give them pills and whatnot and help them wake up period.

If the machines just killed off any humans that woke up (few humans just wake up on their own as we already know), there wouldn't be anyone to help the humans realising the Matrix. I think this would then cause chaos within. Rather than have chaos, just let the humans get the people becoming aware out of the Matrix.

Besides, the machines don't believe the humans are any threat or have any resistence anyway. If they really thought the humans were going to be a threat, then maybe they would try killing some off when they come out of the Matrix (for all you know they already do that sometimes). We know that probably not everyone that comes out of the Matrix for some strange reason (without any guidence), survives.

But yeah, the machines don't see the humans as a threat or resistence anyway. They are very over confident that they can kill the humans anyways each time around. It creates the illusion of choice, freedom, and in reality is all control. Just accept that it's all part of some glorious plan the machines have worked out. And from the sound of things, the machines are going to be killing the humans pretty easily, as always, in Revolutions, if it wasn't for the deal we know that Neo ends up making.

[kel thuzad]

Yeah...among other things.

[nightbringer]

The idea that the machines don't kill the humans because they don't percieve them as a threat makes more sense than having to offer the humans a choice and that if they don't everyone who is plugged in will know about the deaths of those on the outside, so for now I think best answer would be that the machines don't percieve the humans as treats. Fanibles ideas makes more sense logically (the way a machine would think) than Kel's.

[kel thuzad]

Maybe Fanible sounds a lot more logical than me but i've said only what's been already said by Architect.
So again i'll say that your endless questions are pointless coz Arch. answers all of this...if you disagree with him, go and tell him...Fanible's idea is good too but i'd say it's just supportive to what ARCHITECT SAID.