Matrix Reloaded - Issues (don't read if you haven't seen it yet)

[MatrixHasBeenOD]

I agree with the review on here 95% Here is what I really hated the most:

1.) I was disappointed with Zion. Every scene in Zion gave off that same "typical sci-fi" movie feel with the captains, ships, and officers everywhere. The first movie gave such a bleak, scares, hopeless appeal too - the second painted much more active picture with Zion being the way they made it.

2.) The "caveman" scene in the caves when the Zion folk were partying, while Neo and Trinity got their freak on back in their room. It seemed too raunchy, not sci-fi at all, completely unnecessary. Didn't fit in with the rest of the movie at all, they should delete it in the DVD release!! The "crotch-n-code" scene where the cake eating lady had an orgasm, unwarranted. Looking at Martrix 1, I know it never would have been in that film. That was not Matrix worthy humor, that was stupid. These two scenes bothered me on the same level, they were both raunchy and out of place.

3.) The One turning out to be a pawn and not a savior, unless someone is lying - kinda freaky.

4.) I liked the confusing ending presented by the Architect (even though it's kinda heartbreaking to find out the Oracle is a program that is technically bad, as she helped the architect structure the Matrix and fix his initial problems), it was challenging. But the whole Neo having his powers in the supposed real world, a twist I didn't wanna swallow. It makes me think, was anyone ever really out of the Matrix? Or when Neo chose a door, maybe he never left?

5.) Agent Smith coming back as a liberated program on his own personal vendetta is OK. But infecting other entities, multiplying, and even digitally possessing people who can then leave the Matrix with him still in their minds to roam free in the real world is just going too far (but based on the ending, maybe he's not in the real world because maybe no one is, even when they leave the Matrix, this ties in with my last item).

6.) The feeling of the first movie, the story's aura, everything - this movie wasn't the same. It wasn't as raw and sweet, it was overkill. Probably because at first they had no intention of making more movies - so they basically had to pull stuff out of their a$$es, which explains Reloaded's funny vibe. The 3rd movie better touch some roots.

[spooker]

overall its a overkill to the mind ,,,
oooooooooooooooooooo

its mind bending............................

persephone ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, kiss kiss

[MatrixHasBeenOD]

Whoa there...

[spooker]

im totalllly confused with Mr architect ,, what the @#@#@ is he talking about ,,,

i kinda understand what his saying , but , then again ,, huh ???
Anomaly er what ????

god knows if zion is another programm .......... pffffzzz

[hokiemax]

Originally posted by MatrixHasBeenOD
I agree with the review on here 95% Here is what I really hated the most:

1.) I was disappointed with Zion. Every scene in Zion gave off that same "typical sci-fi" movie feel with the captains, ships, and officers everywhere. The first movie gave such a bleak, scares, hopeless appeal too - the second painted much more active picture with Zion being the way they made it.

2.) The "caveman" scene in the caves when the Zion folk were partying, while Neo and Trinity got their freak on back in their room. It seemed too raunchy, not sci-fi at all, completely unnecessary. Didn't fit in with the rest of the movie at all, they should delete it in the DVD release!! The "crotch-n-code" scene where the cake eating lady had an orgasm, unwarranted. Looking at Martrix 1, I know it never would have been in that film. That was not Matrix worthy humor, that was stupid. These two scenes bothered me on the same level, they were both raunchy and out of place.

3.) The One turning out to be a pawn and not a savior, unless someone is lying - kinda freaky.

4.) I liked the confusing ending presented by the Architect (even though it's kinda heartbreaking to find out the Oracle is a program that is technically bad, as she helped the architect structure the Matrix and fix his initial problems), it was challenging. But the whole Neo having his powers in the supposed real world, a twist I didn't wanna swallow. It makes me think, was anyone ever really out of the Matrix? Or when Neo chose a door, maybe he never left?

5.) Agent Smith coming back as a liberated program on his own personal vendetta is OK. But infecting other entities, multiplying, and even digitally possessing people who can then leave the Matrix with him still in their minds to roam free in the real world is just going too far (but based on the ending, maybe he's not in the real world because maybe no one is, even when they leave the Matrix, this ties in with my last item).

6.) The feeling of the first movie, the story's aura, everything - this movie wasn't the same. It wasn't as raw and sweet, it was overkill. Probably because at first they had no intention of making more movies - so they basically had to pull stuff out of their a$$es, which explains Reloaded's funny vibe. The 3rd movie better touch some roots.

This is EXACTLY how I feel. I couldn't have said it better.

[Chodaboy]

I found the architect part funny.....the editors must have looked at what they wrote and been like WTF??? and they were too lazy to change it so they just made the architect say that "because you are human some of this you will not understand"
I liked it

[gauze28]

Originally posted by MatrixHasBeenOD
I agree with the review on here 95% Here is what I really hated the most:

1.) I was disappointed with Zion. Every scene in Zion gave off that same "typical sci-fi" movie feel with the captains, ships, and officers everywhere. The first movie gave such a bleak, scares, hopeless appeal too - the second painted much more active picture with Zion being the way they made it.

2.) The "caveman" scene in the caves when the Zion folk were partying, while Neo and Trinity got their freak on back in their room. It seemed too raunchy, not sci-fi at all, completely unnecessary. Didn't fit in with the rest of the movie at all, they should delete it in the DVD release!! The "crotch-n-code" scene where the cake eating lady had an orgasm, unwarranted. Looking at Martrix 1, I know it never would have been in that film. That was not Matrix worthy humor, that was stupid. These two scenes bothered me on the same level, they were both raunchy and out of place.

3.) The One turning out to be a pawn and not a savior, unless someone is lying - kinda freaky.

4.) I liked the confusing ending presented by the Architect (even though it's kinda heartbreaking to find out the Oracle is a program that is technically bad, as she helped the architect structure the Matrix and fix his initial problems), it was challenging. But the whole Neo having his powers in the supposed real world, a twist I didn't wanna swallow. It makes me think, was anyone ever really out of the Matrix? Or when Neo chose a door, maybe he never left?

5.) Agent Smith coming back as a liberated program on his own personal vendetta is OK. But infecting other entities, multiplying, and even digitally possessing people who can then leave the Matrix with him still in their minds to roam free in the real world is just going too far (but based on the ending, maybe he's not in the real world because maybe no one is, even when they leave the Matrix, this ties in with my last item).

6.) The feeling of the first movie, the story's aura, everything - this movie wasn't the same. It wasn't as raw and sweet, it was overkill. Probably because at first they had no intention of making more movies - so they basically had to pull stuff out of their a$$es, which explains Reloaded's funny vibe. The 3rd movie better touch some roots.

1) no comment

2) orgy scene is a rip-off of dune.

3) really good twist. It's what saved the movie for me, otherwise I might not have liked this one

4) again great plot twist, made me like the movie. As for Neo having power outside of the MAtrix, my impression was that since he was a pawn he had a link to them and could shut them down, although he seemed to get hurt pretty bad in the process.

5) possibly, didnt think about that too much

[jpdill]

How long does the sex scenes go on for? Do you see Trinity naked for long and what kind is it? And the woman with the orgasm - is it like visible orgy?

[Pinesol13]

Originally posted by jpdill
How long does the sex scenes go on for? Do you see Trinity naked for long and what kind is it? And the woman with the orgasm - is it like visible orgy?



...dork:rolleyes:







anyways, i got a question. did anybody else pick up on the fact that the 2 twins with the dreadlocks were vampires?

[Pinesol13]

my thoughts.......



went to see the matrix last night. of course there was a very crazy crowd, but I didnt mind that, it actually helped with the atmosphere. but there was this 1 dork who tried to dress up as Neo....sunglasses, trenchcoat, and slick hair......but he ended up loooking really stupid and was laughed at by everyone.

anyways, the movie...................dissapointing. the 1st thing that was dissapointing was the amount of cgi. there are parts where Neo's entire body is cgi. and in a lot of shots Zion is 90% cgi. I really didnt like that. It reminded me a whole lot of Star Wars, and I didnt want to be reminded of Star Wars.
I didnt like the over all feel of the movie. the 1st one "blew your mind" because just the idea of The Matrix was a new idea, and it was so crazy. and the fact that they could do all those crazy stunts was pretty cool too. but now...since we already know they can do those things and we already know about the Matrix....i needed something else to blow my mind again...........something to make me say ..."whoah". It almost came through on that point, but in the end it didnt deliver. The 1st one also felt more edgy. it had more grit to it. but Matrix 2 feels glossed over. Its kinda hard to describe how I feel about it. There are a lot of things I like about it. mostly just individual things that were just really cool.


so, again..dissapointing. It felt a lot like just a regular super-hero movie. It didnt really feeel like The Matrix half of the time. I still liked the movie, but not as much as I wish I did.

[MatrixHasBeenOD]

Eliminate the orgy scene, and the movie would have been 10x better.

[Pinesol13]

do you mean the party scene, or the scene of neo and trinity getting their groove thang on?


if they had filmed the party scene different, i would've liked it more....and as far as the neo/trinity sex scene....I dont see why they should get rid of it? maybe shorten it a little...but i thought it was necessary to really see that they loved eachother, a lot.

[Finelli]

Originally posted by spooker
im totalllly confused with Mr architect ,, what the @#@#@ is he talking about ,,,

i kinda understand what his saying , but , then again ,, huh ???
Anomaly er what ????



The architect was explaining to Neo that he had already been to him before. 6 times. Neo is special because he actually represents a mathematical "probability", not an equation. The Matrix has no equation or solution for what he is, so he in fact is really free to do as he pleases while in it, unlike everyone else who can eventually be figured out. The 6 previous times he's made it to the Source, he had chosen the other door and chosen to shut down the Matrix, thinking he'd saved mankind. The thing that Neo did not know was that the architect himself was actually RELOADING the Matrix again and making everyone, including Neo, run through their steps all over. The difference this time is that Neo actually decided to use his heart and save Trinity, not the world.. this lead him to decide to open the other door.. now the Matrix has been shut down and the war will have to be fought.

[Pinesol13]

I dont think it's been Neo who's visited the source all 6 times. each time it was a different person. it was whoever happened to be "the one" that time. and each time "the one" chose the door to save the human race, with 7 males and 14 females. once the human race was restarted, he told them what he learned from the source. that at some point in the future, a man would come who could end the war. and that's what the prophecy is.

[Fanible]

Wasn't this exact same post in the Matrix forum?

[Fanible]

Originally posted by Pinesol13
I dont think it's been Neo who's visited the source all 6 times. each time it was a different person. it was whoever happened to be "the one" that time. and each time "the one" chose the door to save the human race, with 7 males and 14 females. once the human race was restarted, he told them what he learned from the source. that at some point in the future, a man would come who could end the war. and that's what the prophecy is.

Yes I agree. I think it was simply Neo's thoughts that were showing up on the screen.

[spooker]

agree with pinesol ,,, neo is the sixth person ,,,
and regarding the thing he did in the real world against the sentinel , somehow he stopped the sentinel ,, i felt like laughing , heheh but whoahh heheeh not bad :)
probably he has somekinda telepathic ability , human sixth sense,
and thats why his different and able to make the reall change ....

[Finelli]

Originally posted by Fanible
Wasn't this exact same post in the Matrix forum?

Is there a Matrix forum here?

Originally posted by Pinesol13
I dont think it's been Neo who's visited the source all 6 times. each time it was a different person. it was whoever happened to be "the one" that time. and each time "the one" chose the door to save the human race, with 7 males and 14 females. once the human race was restarted, he told them what he learned from the source. that at some point in the future, a man would come who could end the war. and that's what the prophecy is.

Neo had been there 5 previous times. the architect even showed him in the screens with his previous reactions at those times. Neo is the ONLY ONE. The reason he had been there five times was because he kept deciding to shut it down to save the humans, but all he did was give the architect the chance to restart, thus running the loop again.

NOW.. with that being said, how can he keep doing this you ask? Zion is actually another Matrix. How else could Smith have gotten into it? he's a program. A program has no real life. That itself should tell you that Zion is another huge program. A second thing that tells you this is the fact that Neo actually stopped the sentinels. His abilities are so fine-tuned from the Matrix that he can now sense them in this other program. That's 2 ways that they let you know what is to come. So basically, you're looking at it through REAL time, our time, when in fact the entire time of Zion is also measured as a program. The Matrix that the architect is referring to INCLUDES Zion and all the events in it. THE HUMANS ARE ALL PART OF THE PROGRAM TOO!! WHEN THEY THINK THEY'VE REVOLTED OUTSIDE OF THE MATRIX, THEY THINK THEY'RE FREE, BUT THEY'RE STILL IN THE MATRIX. SO THE MATRIX WE KNOW OF IS ACTUALLY A MATRIX WITHIN A MATRIX!!!

[rasded]

I like Reloaded allot,In fact Ive seen it twice already and seeing again on sunday.I admit there were some scenes that should have been cut..Like the Orgazm thing.But in a sence I think the directors were trying to explain something.Not sure what though?

The kung fu seemed to be better and the action.


They worked damn hard making this movie.People got hurt,gruling hours of training,Sleepless nights trying to figure out whats going to work on screen.

I was Impressed and thats all I have to say.

[glorfindel1898]

Neo had been there 5 previous times. the architect even showed him in the screens with his previous reactions at those times. Neo is the ONLY ONE. The reason he had been there five times was because he kept deciding to shut it down to save the humans, but all he did was give the architect the chance to restart, thus running the loop again. NOW.. with that being said, how can he keep doing this you ask? Zion is actually another Matrix. How else could Smith have gotten into it? he's a program. A program has no real life. That itself should tell you that Zion is another huge program. A second thing that tells you this is the fact that Neo actually stopped the sentinels. His abilities are so fine-tuned from the Matrix that he can now sense them in this other program. That's 2 ways that they let you know what is to come. So basically, you're looking at it through REAL time, our time, when in fact the entire time of Zion is also measured as a program. The Matrix that the architect is referring to INCLUDES Zion and all the events in it. THE HUMANS ARE ALL PART OF THE PROGRAM TOO!! WHEN THEY THINK THEY'VE REVOLTED OUTSIDE OF THE MATRIX, THEY THINK THEY'RE FREE, BUT THEY'RE STILL IN THE MATRIX. SO THE MATRIX WE KNOW OF IS ACTUALLY A MATRIX WITHIN A MATRIX!!!

Sorry, pal, you're absolutely WRONG!

It was not Neo who visited the Architect 5 previous times. It was those individuals (whom-so-ever were dubbed as "One"s during each subsequent rebellion) that came to the Arcitect, each guided, like Neo, by the Oracle.

I cant believe you thought that the clips of Neo on the screens behind him were from all the other times Neo had seen the Arcitect!!? How'd you come up with that? All you had to do was listen to the conversation between Neo & Architect. The whole thing, just like several other conversations in the movie, centered around this idea: Are we free to make choices on our own ? (aka Free-will vs. predeterminism) or, in other words, how we react in given situations.....

What was being shown on the screens was clearly not from

Neo's 5 previous visits (first off, there were way more than 5 reactions being played - there were 50+ screens) ...they were all of NEo's possible reactions to the things the Architect was telling him. The whole time, the architect was predicting and analyzing Neo's reactions......when Neo has to pick 1 of the 2 doors, the architect starts analyzing Neo's thoughts and emotions.

Also, as far as "Matrix within a Matrix" --- no way.....

Before the Burly Brawl, Neo and Smith have a quick talk about the way Smith was freed when Neo jumped into Smith at the end of the first movie. It mentions in vague language how they are somehow connected/changed. B/c they "combined" briefly, Smith has moved a bit closer to humanity, just as Neo has moved a bit closer to machines. Now smith is more connected to humans (he inhabits Bane in the real world) , like Neo now has some connection to machines in the real world (psychically stops the squiddies).

On a purely unrelated note- "A Elbereth Gilthoniel!!!!"

[LegolasIsntSexy]

this movie was too damn confusing

[Frodo284]

ok here are my ?'s....you all are arguing back and forth about what the aritecht guy was explaining. Who is right and whois wrong....? we have come to the conclusion that this process has all been done 6 times before. we are a little unsure of if it were neo all these times or just different so called..."ones"...I was more confsed one what happened when he went through the door and it exploded...why did it do that? was the oracle bad? i missed the explanation at the end. what was the deal with someting exploded or something and everyone died but one? di dthe machines get to zion or what happened? I am confused. I kind of like the deal w/ maybe a matrix inside the matrix. it was weird how he stopped the sentinels. Maybe he is just powerful like that, but he did say b4 he did it that something was different. Maybe he was starting to realize that. oh i'm so confused but all i know is that the truck wreck did it for me..that was the ****nit :) ;) :)

[KHOG]

overall, it was a good movie, but i think i would apreciate it more the more i watch it, although i think some scenes were not needed or tooooo slowww.

a few notes conserning the interpretation of some things.
one thing i noticed and i think some of you have too, are the plugs on Neo's body as well as trinity and the crew! especialy Neo's since you might recall from the first movie that they were REMOVED when they freed him from the Matrix!! What happened now? they put them back?

also, when Neo stopped the machines in the "real world", there are a few possibilities. one was already mentioned that Zion is a Matrix within a Matrix. but you might not have thought about the second one: right after destroyed the machines, another ship arrived to pick them up. perhaps that ship used the EMP (electo-magnetic pulse) at the exact moment that Neo though he's moves still work outside the Matrix (emp only affects electonic devices, no humans).

it would've been cool to see in action that robot that was driven by a man.

the kissing part was totaly like elementary school... "kiss me and i'll give you my chocolate bar".... please

a huge dissapointment was the Music.. come on guys.. wtf... i was expecting something kicking during the fight scenes... the bad music choice took alot of the excitement away.

when Neo was with the Architect, all those screens were showing all possible reactions that Neo could have to a given action. The this case, it was his reaction to the conversation with the Architect.

the explosion at the end was from the bomb that was in the building i think. the power get restored and the bomb went off??

i am sure my thought about the movie and the story will change after seeing it a few more times.

that's my piece of mind...

[darkma773r]

Well, i have to say i was dissapointed and impressed in Reloaded all at the same time.

The Good:
-great fight scenes
-funky kung fu
-great highway chase
-good plot twists
-neo flys super fast and everything behind him explodes.

The Bad:
-some out of place songs
-some weird sound effects( i noticed that the swords always sound exactly the same)
-first 15 min. are confusing and out of place

The Ugly
-almost everyone talks in weird big words.
-weird "make you think" lines like "we dont make choices, choices are made, we have to understand that choices arent choices and thats a choice that we have to make even though it makes no difference"
-one part was like a bad rap music video orgy. (could have done w/o the whole sex thing)
-I always imaginied Zion smaller, and not as high tech. But it is massive
-the whole cake/woman thing was out of place and really cheasy/stupid/unnessary
-black sunglasses on EVERYONE


What really ticked me off was the first 15 min.
it was so horrible, i almost walked out of the theater!
The scenes jumped all over, had no transitions, no lead in, and no flow. After that, it was decent, and i forgot how pissed i was.

Overall, it was a poorly told story with hyped special effects.
At times, neo looked like a rubber doll, flying, bouncing, and twirling around like a fairy.

The supporting roles sucked big time. No character development at all. What the hell is up with Morphous and that other capt. dude?! I picked up that they were jealous about that Niobe girl, who did jack squat. What happened to tank? Now there is just some other black guy in his place.

This is what neo says at the end of the first one:
(Phone)
Neo, The One: I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you, a world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries, a world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.

What does this have to do with reloaded?! it dosent tie in very well, it almost seems to tie in with the revolutions rather than reloaded.

And whats up with the "neo has power in the real world" thing!? I think that he probably swithed some powers with agent smith. Now smith is a little human, and neo is a little machine.

all in all, it was decent and worth watching again it did not live up to all the hype. A great story written by theWachowski bros., they just need a good director to convey it better.

[nslam]

I thought the reason Neo was in a coma because he was poisoned by Persephone's lipstick. Monica Belluci stated that she doesn't fight in the movie, but there are other way to be dangerous. "Kiss of death"

[darkma773r]

i dont think that the kiss is what put him in a coma, it just wouldnt fit.

Then again, not many of the peices in reloaded fit well together so it is possible.

[Frodo284]

I will agree a bit w/ u on the smith having human and neo having machine...b/c smith bled if u remember towards the end and he was cutting his hand, but besides that...your weird.. you don't listen well do you.
B/c it is a differnet sword doesnt mean it comes manufactured w/ differnt sound effects...talk about being picky
I will agree that everyone talks weird, but this is a philisophical movie..you don't expect them to say instead...the cat is from the species of choices blahb lah blahc...they are not going to say, "the cat comes from a lion" i mean they just don't explain things in this movie that well, you just have to adapt to the movie, it doens't adapt to you.
i will agree on the zion orgy scene, it was ok, but needed to be cut.
the cake/woman/orgasm, was unnecessary, but maybe they found it humourous (the directors) and it kind of went along w/ what the french dude was saying...well kind of
black sunglasses, that's not an issue, they have all been wearing those since the first one.
the first 15 min consisted of a dream sequence and such, dreams are usually weird.
the whole rubber doll comment...IT'S CGI, get use to it, it' snot perfect yet and that's what the world is using. look at how it looked good, not bad, it could have llookked MUCH worse
supporting actors were poorly developed, but they will have bigger parts in 3, most of them.
maybe u need to watch matrix 2 again, but if u listened to Link's wife, you would have heard her say that she was sad b/c dozer and tank were dead, he was badly wounded in the first one, no one said he would make it.
and as for the way the first one ended, it was just leaving it opened for a sequel. he was going to free people, duh!!!!
get your facts st8 dude

[lechuck13]

I agree completely with finelli. I especially agree with the matrix within a matrix part.

I view Zion as a kind of... spillover trough, like around really fancy bathtubs. If any water (or people) spill out of the bath (or become enlightened), then they're caught by the spillover trough (or zion, a second matrix).

[lechuck13]

Originally posted by darkma773r
almost everyone talks in weird big words.

Well, if that's a bad thing in your opinion, then maybe you should've skipped this and seen Anger Management or Malibu's Most Wanted.

Originally posted by darkma773r
What does this have to do with reloaded?! it dosent tie in very well, it almost seems to tie in with the revolutions rather than reloaded.

Did you even watch the last 15 minutes?!? Or did you just tune out because of all the "weird big words"? :rolleyes:

[ILOVEKATIE]

This movie sounds too complicated, by the things you guys are saying about the film it looks to me the movie kind of sucked or wasn't satisfying, I'm going to see it tomorrow, I hope I like it.

[ImJacksAmygdala]

Originally posted by glorfindel1898
Sorry, pal, you're absolutely WRONG!

It was not Neo who visited the Architect 5 previous times. It was those individuals (whom-so-ever were dubbed as "One"s during each subsequent rebellion) that came to the Arcitect, each guided, like Neo, by the Oracle.

I cant believe you thought that the clips of Neo on the screens behind him were from all the other times Neo had seen the Arcitect!!? How'd you come up with that? All you had to do was listen to the conversation between Neo & Architect. The whole thing, just like several other conversations in the movie, centered around this idea: Are we free to make choices on our own ? (aka Free-will vs. predeterminism) or, in other words, how we react in given situations.....

What was being shown on the screens was clearly not from

Neo's 5 previous visits (first off, there were way more than 5 reactions being played - there were 50+ screens) ...they were all of NEo's possible reactions to the things the Architect was telling him. The whole time, the architect was predicting and analyzing Neo's reactions......when Neo has to pick 1 of the 2 doors, the architect starts analyzing Neo's thoughts and emotions.

Also, as far as "Matrix within a Matrix" --- no way.....

Before the Burly Brawl, Neo and Smith have a quick talk about the way Smith was freed when Neo jumped into Smith at the end of the first movie. It mentions in vague language how they are somehow connected/changed. B/c they "combined" briefly, Smith has moved a bit closer to humanity, just as Neo has moved a bit closer to machines. Now smith is more connected to humans (he inhabits Bane in the real world) , like Neo now has some connection to machines in the real world (psychically stops the squiddies).

On a purely unrelated note- "A Elbereth Gilthoniel!!!!"

Ok I just saw the movie and I had to hit the net to make sense of what the hell happened. I like the two main theories of a matrix and a zion matrix and the latter theory of smith and neo becoming part of each other bridging the symbiotic relationship of man and machine.

I am more inclined to entertain the thought of glorfindel1898 that the Man and Machine theory is more likely. I believe Finelli is absolutely correct that Neo is an anomoly because Neo represents a mathematical "probability", not an equation (I applaud you for helping me understand this) The screens in the architect room were the possible reactions of Neo's possible probability outcomes to give the architect time to reload the matrix becuase Neo represents a mathematical "probability", not an equation, and the architect did not know what door Neo would choose, but there are some supporting facts to the Man and Machine theory.

Also Neo may have not been the one and only anomaly the architect has had to deal with. I think the Oracles original purpose was to find anomalies and report them but instead became a rouge program that survives or has some other motive. When the councilor was talking to Neo they explored the symbiotic relationship of man and machine. The architect telling Neo he can choose 7 men and 14 women (not sure the exact numbers) to repopulate Zion makes me think that the council of Zion are those survivors from previus anomilies failing. Look at the age groups of Zion and the age of the council!

Smith copied himself into the phone, he has a part of Neo, and was able to survive in a Human body in Zion and tried to kill Neo in the hall way with the knife.

Neo has a part of Smith and has control over Matrix code, but in the real world he has power over machines! Thats how he stopped the squiddies. Entering the Scource may have facilitated what Neo thought was "Something Different".

It is Ironic that Smith hates Neo so much for the human race being a all consuming virus when Smith himself has become a rouge program that can copy himself indefinatley, otherwise known as a virus.

Smith may want to kill Neo in Zion based on the sole fact that the part of Neo that entered Smith made Smith become what he hates so much.

The last supporting fact of the matrix's affects on the real world is not only that the machine in Neo can stop the Squiddies, but the last sole survivor that was picked up was the guy that Smith entered into the phone to enter the real world and kill Neo. The squiddies let Smith survive because they can somehow sense the machine in him.

The movie is also emphisising the importance of choices. The first matrix attempt failed because the human mind couldn't survive without the holocust of bad choices! Not actually the holocust and world wars.... Neo takes the form of a mathematical probability in the matrix that the architect can't solve for because he can't preload false choices which is another reason Neo was never happy before he was freed in the first movie. The freedom of choice plays a very important role in this movie and should not be overlooked. This could also be how Neo corrupted Smith. The french guy babbled about choices and so did the oracle and the architect. I think even the councilor did.

What I don't understand fully is the Oracle's motives, how many times Zion has been rebuilt, and how the old council members fit in. The council seemed to be more concerned with Neo than protecting Zion. I think they all know more about whats going on. The french guy and the oracle seemed to understand how choices are supposed to work in the matrix like they are scripts in a program. Or like vase falling in the first movie. The oracle may have some ability to write scripts, but she doesn't have full control of Neo's unknown probabilies.

I am almost sure Zion isn't another matrix. Zion might also be kept around to create anomolies for bug testing the matrix because the architect is trying to solve for the anomoly and once he has perfected the matrix by fixing the anomoly he doesn't want Zion to free more "rogue probabilities" that can contine to screw things up which is why the machines have a plan B to survive in the case that all the human farms die.

I hope this post has helped add something meaningful to this discussion because this is the only thread on the net that I can find that helps aliviate the confusion!

Sorry for the spelling errors its 2:46 in the morning...

BTW- I personally loved the orgy scene because the juxtaposition of the raw tribal human interaction with the civilized world of the matrix (Zions air traffic control too) and the efficient machines is awsome! Plus seeing nipples through sweaty shirts was a plus!

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I just saw Reloaded- Totaly awesome! I can't wait for Revolutions! :) :)

[djxl2]

Originally posted by darkma773r
Well, i have to say i was dissapointed and impressed in Reloaded all at the same time.

The Good:
-great fight scenes
-funky kung fu
-great highway chase
-good plot twists
-neo flys super fast and everything behind him explodes.

The Bad:
-some out of place songs
-some weird sound effects( i noticed that the swords always sound exactly the same)
-first 15 min. are confusing and out of place

The Ugly
-almost everyone talks in weird big words.
-weird "make you think" lines like "we dont make choices, choices are made, we have to understand that choices arent choices and thats a choice that we have to make even though it makes no difference"
-one part was like a bad rap music video orgy. (could have done w/o the whole sex thing)
-I always imaginied Zion smaller, and not as high tech. But it is massive
-the whole cake/woman thing was out of place and really cheasy/stupid/unnessary
-black sunglasses on EVERYONE


What really ticked me off was the first 15 min.
it was so horrible, i almost walked out of the theater!
The scenes jumped all over, had no transitions, no lead in, and no flow. After that, it was decent, and i forgot how pissed i was.

Overall, it was a poorly told story with hyped special effects.
At times, neo looked like a rubber doll, flying, bouncing, and twirling around like a fairy.

The supporting roles sucked big time. No character development at all. What the hell is up with Morphous and that other capt. dude?! I picked up that they were jealous about that Niobe girl, who did jack squat. What happened to tank? Now there is just some other black guy in his place.

This is what neo says at the end of the first one:
(Phone)
Neo, The One: I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you, a world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries, a world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.

What does this have to do with reloaded?! it dosent tie in very well, it almost seems to tie in with the revolutions rather than reloaded.

And whats up with the "neo has power in the real world" thing!? I think that he probably swithed some powers with agent smith. Now smith is a little human, and neo is a little machine.

all in all, it was decent and worth watching again it did not live up to all the hype. A great story written by theWachowski bros., they just need a good director to convey it better.


exactly!!!!!!!!!!!


WORD TO THAT! THIS movie was a TOTAL disapointment!!!!




Nothing what i wanted to see.. BLAH!!!!!!!!! THE MUSIC OMG F***ING HORRIBLE!!!!


IT sounded like it was some OLD man sitting behind a synthicizer thinking 'oh man i need to make some 'cool' 'hip' 'techno' music for this' my dad could make better 'techno' music then that!

It was like such a PATHETIC attempt at sounding 'cool'.


compared to the music selection from the first movie. It was Awesome!!! like the lobby scene where they use propellerheads spybreak! That sound fit perfectly to the scene. the music gives so much more to the movie..



ARRGH!!!!

how did they MESS THIS UP SOO BAD!!!

[himself]

First of all I'd like to thank 'ImJacksAmygdala' for enlightening me with his thoughts, you helped give me a greater understanding of the matrix.

Okay, now I dont' believe that Zion is a Matrix...i can see how ppl may have gotten that impression but i just think it sounds a lil bit too ridiculous to be true. It makes us viewers feel like the whole movie is pointless. Like as if it's some practical joke from the Wachowski bros making you watch it just, so they could go...HA HAR! i rolled ya! That would be equilvalent to watching a movie with twists and stuff and then having the ending reveal that it was all just a dream. Totally pointless.

I also don't like how ppl have been saying Agent Smith(a program) became more human and therefore could go into the real world...that's IMPOSSIBLE
what i think happened...is that when that dude was plugged up into the matrix...Agent Smith(a program) kinda hacked into the thing that plugs into that dudes brain and sensationalized certain parts of it to imprint the thoughts and history and life of Agent Smith(similar to how Neo just learnt how to fight by being uploaded with stuff). So Agent Smith basically just overwrote all of that guys memory and thoughts with that of his.

The possibility of Neo being more machine like also sounds unrealistic...i know how it might bind in with all the talk about the relationship b/w human and machine..but it's physically impossible. I don't know what the real answer is.
What if Neo is actually a machine that was hooked up into the matrix? A prototype of a mechanical human..depicting a mathematical anamoly to replace all 'the ones'. Maybe the machines have already created the 'perfect' matrix...and have wiped out all the mathematical anamolies that would exist by plugging in a human. By creating a mechanical anamolie, the loop of zion being destroyed and stuff would be infinite... giving the machines a purpose to live (Have any of you's seen MEMENTO??? that's a bloody kick ass movie and i strongly recommend you see it if you love twists and mind bending ideas). Because what would life be for the machines after creating the perfect matrix? I think this would give them a lil purpose to live. And if Neo is just a machine, it would clearly explain why he stopped that sentinel in the real world. For the explanation above to make any sense, you would've had to have read ImJacksAmygdala's input and maybe watched MEMENTO to understand.

Oh, can i asked one question? I missed out on the explanation of how the keys actually manage to open the door to a totally different part of the matrix world..something about the backbone of the matrix or something.

[himself]

Oh I just wanted to add that I shouldn't just give credit to ImJacksAmygdala, thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread b/c everyone helped really.

P.S sorry for all my spastic spelling mistakes and bad grammar

[The Mighty]

So the movie was a big disapointment then?

[basketballpat3]

Okay guys...

This is what I think. I too believe the whole orgy scene and and cake orgasim thing was totally out of place. But let's think about it..... if these two scenes would have been deleted what would have stopped the MPAA from giving the movie a PG-13 rating?? The violance and imagery was not as strong as the original, which warrented the R rating. Thus, tossing in these scenes would make sure that Reloaded received the R rating. A PG-13 rating would have been a let down to fans, maybe even causing it to perform worse at the box office. That's what I think, let me know what you think.

[ImJacksAmygdala]

The orgy was important to convey the sharp contrasting juxtaposition of the raw tribal human interaction with the civilized world of the matrix (Zions air traffic control too) and the efficient machines. Zions culture is built on the feeling of being free, and what better facilitates that feeling better than music and sweaty bodies?

The cake orgasim is very important! It is a visual tool to show the audience very simply and quickly how scripts can be placed into people in the matrix. Why does the Oracle always offer Neo food? (that was EricNoah's epiphany not mine found at http://www.rottentomatoes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=234680&perpage=25&pagenumber=2) The Oracle does seem to be a writer of scripts. Such as when she made the vase fall. Yes that did cook my noodle thank you very much!

[IdahoMR2man]

You know that it is medula-oblongatta right?

[jbailey84]

this is my opinion but i liked the first Matrix better than reloaded for some odd reason. reloaded was cool because of the fights, chases, and thats it. but i go agrre about the orgy/neo & trinity love scene. total waste of time and film. and is it just me, or do the Wachowski Bros, the directors, really like Rage Against the Machine? Matrix ended with "Wake Up" and Reloaded ended with "Calm Like a Bomb" Wonder what Revolutions will end with...FREEDOM!:D

[fes]

Why didn't they do it so the EMP effects Neo & Agent Smith? Telling the audience that they are somehow connected to the machines... it would make for a nice link to the fact that Neo feels empathy for the machines.

I haven't seen reloaded yet - i live in the UK so it;s not out yet

[fes]

From what I've read the 2 main theories you guys have are:

a) The matrix within a matrix

b) Smith & Neo are part of each other

From reading your posts i'd say it's both of these. If I link to my above post about Neo's empathy for the machines in the "real world". It's obvious that if Neo can do all of his moves then he is still in a matrix of a kind, but the machines would surley have an advantage over Neo still - but Neo has also gained upgrades much like Smith, and is able to alter much more than usual.

I'm sure it'll all be explained in Revolutions anyways.

[carnage4u]

i have seen some people ask.. was it bad? is it worth seeing?

Dont let people here make that choice for you.

considering the money it is ranking in, just about every type of person is seeing this movie. from the smart to the dumbass.

so dont take the word of strangers if you should see it. It looks fun to you see it.

People here I would say mostly like it, while i few expected more and didnt. I loved it, but knew not to expect it to change my life and therefore I was ok with what it did.

let me repeat. People that post here should not effect anyone if they see it or not. Lots of good people post here. lots of morons post here. its the fun of a free forum to see the contrast of brain power in action.

[himself]

...and plus is thread is called Matrix reloaded ISSUES(don't read if you haven't seen it) so all those who haven't seen it and read all this and spoil the movie for themselves aren't doing themselves a very huge favour!

We're sposed to be discussing issues about the movie here, not about whether you liked it or not...damn ppl coming in just to post that they didn't like it. If you didn't like it, just tell us why, and perhaps we could shed light on some confusion that you might have. I'm sure there are alot of ppl asking the same questions as you are so it would help everybody really, including me. : )

There are only 3 reasons to why you wouldn't like this movie:
1. Bc you were so dumb that you couldn't even understand the first one
2. Your expectations were so high that it was impossible for the movie to fulfill your expectations
3. Bc you left the cinema thinking that the Wachowski bros are bastards for deliberately constructing a movie that would leave you so confused that you'd have to come back and watch it again!
.....i believe they have a marketing mind as well...not just a movie making one

Well the movie has grossed a record $42.5 million on its opening day on Thursday. Spidey previously held the opening day record (on a Friday) with $39.4 million. I think that speaks for itself.

[jdonoho]

I'm confused about the architect too, but from what he said they are still in the Matrix this whole time. I think the 5 'Ones' were NEO and not different people. What makes me think all of this is that the Architect said they are getting really proficient at destroying Zion. If Zion was actually part of the real world, how could this be? Zion and this perception of humans being out of the Matrix is required by humans. Didn't the architect say something to the effect that HOPE is 'one' or 'the' greatest strengths and weaknesses of humans. And that humans need hope in order to survive. That is why Zion exists INSIDE THE MATRIX. That's my interpretation of what he's saying anything. Unless it's just all BS and the architect is saying what he must to try and get rid of Neo. However, the power that Neo displayed at the end of the movie against the sentinels seems to suggest they are still in the Matrix and he is just realizing it and in a coma because he is adapting to this. Who knows...hopefully they'll throw something at us in the next movie that we aren't expecting because them being inside the Matrix still is kind of predictable and shoots the hell out of the coolness from the first one. By the way....CHECK THIS MOVIE OUT, but don't expect too much. The majority of the time after it I was like...what the hell was he just talking about (architect). After this movie sucked in it seems a lot better than when I first left the theater and I want to see again just to try and better understand some of the things that are going on with the plot.

[saber5]

darkma773r,

I don't know what your talking about.. the first 15min of the movie has a lot to do with the ending of the movie!! You say that certain things wasn't explained like what happened to tank .. but I do recall them mentioning Tank and the fact that he asked his brother or cousin(not sure of the relation) to pilot the ship for him if he died!!.

I Just wanted to clear up those facts for you .. I think you might have missed some of the explanations for a lot of the stuff because the words were too intricate for you to understand!!

As for the rest of everyone's explanations on the Matrix and Zion being 1 and the same just on differen't platforms.. I can't say I agree with that but I will go and see it again and try and figure it out for myself!!

I can tell ya I thought the Dancing scene was a little too long but I do see the point of that scene.. and the orgasm scene had a purpose too.. sure it could have been explained in another way but it had its purpose!!

[himself]

I still don't believe that all the other 'the one's' were NEO...bc if they were why would morpheus take so long to find him? All he would've had to do is look for someone in the matrix that looks like keanu reeves and yep...he is the one! Hell anyone could have done that.
No...that would also almost eliminate the sole purpose of the oracle...to find and report mathematical anamolies.
The machines are trying to perfect the matrix. As we already know they program the matrix and human behaviour using equations.... The first matrix had all perfect equations and human's didnt have the choice(or there were no 'IF' statements for humans to do bad things). That didn't work cuz huge crops were lost. They made a new version by adding new equations for humans to make bad choices. But even with that version they discovered that there were still mathematical anamolies or ppl who represent a mathematical probability.ie. the one. So the oracle is kinda like a debugging program that finds these programming errors(or lack of programming) and report them. She leads them to the center of the matrix and they add that 'ones' equations in and start the debugging process over agin...and each time it finds a new programming bug.

All the other 'ones' chose the right door and hence got to pull out 21 ppl out of the matrix and rebuild zion.

"When the matrix was first created, a man was born inside that could change the matrix as he saw fit. He was the one that freed the first of us"

I believe that when morpheus said 'freed the first of us' what he meant was he chose the right door and got to rebuild zion with them.

I think zion is kept alive bc when they discover the anomolie, he needs to develop before he can be any use to them(for programming purposes). If they just wipe out zion, sure they'd still find anomolies and the oracle could report them, but he would be no use to them b/c i think he needs to go out in the real world and discover things, develop and hence solve the equations for the machines to chuck into the programming of the new and revised matrix.

[ImJacksAmygdala]

Originally posted by IdahoMR2man
You know that it is medula-oblongatta right?

No I mean this... http://www.23nlpeople.com/Amygdala.htm

[Tim37ninjageniu]

Okay heres what it all means:

The Matrix/Zion is just a loop that has run 5 times before and is now in its 6th time around.
Each time a Matrix is created the "sum of all characters on earth" inevitably creates an anomaly known as the one in this case being of course NEO (one get it?). Instead of Neo destroying the Matrix and freeing humanity the Architect and the Oracle created a false prophecy so in the process the cycle could again continue and the machines would still survive.

What is different this time is that Neo knows his CHOICE. The matrix can either be RELOADED and the cycle continues perhaps into infinity----OR----Neo can choose to save one human defying all logic of the machines.

What was showing on the screens behind him were all the outcomes of CHOICES Neo could make. He chose to follow his heart.

Since he did something that the machines could not predict (that is stop the loop so it is now going forward) he has 24 hours to save humanity in the real world.



Okay and as to why he had power in the real world:
Neo obviously is connected with the matrix at its core. He is now in a way a program of the matrix. Only the "NEO PROGRAM" is unpredictable and also actually REAL which is why he has power in both reality and the matrix.

AND FOR ALL YOU IDIOTS WHO DIDNT UNDERSTAND THE ASSASIN THING HERE GOES:
Agent smith duplicated himself changing the mind of a human into himself. However when that person went back to the real world his actual appearance was unchanged while his mind was. So now there is an Agent Smith trying to assasinate Neo in the real world. He is the man who cut himself. WHY? IT WAS HIS FIRST TIME IN REALITY. It was his first time feeling actual physical feelings so when he cut himself he was just seeing what pain actually felt like.

TADA done i think that is right and if not tell me why

[Tim37ninjageniu]

HIMSELF POSTED:
I still don't believe that all the other 'the one's' were NEO...bc if they were why would morpheus take so long to find him? All he would've had to do is look for someone in the matrix that looks like keanu reeves and yep...he is the one! Hell anyone could have done that.
No...that would also almost eliminate the sole purpose of the oracle...to find and report mathematical anamolies.


sigh

Morpheus and noone knew that this had happened 5 times.
When he was talking to the Architect he said " How come noone told me? Unless noone knew?" "That is correct."

And I dont think it matters who the other "ones" were that is irrevelant.

[himself]

"Morpheus and noone knew that this had happened 5 times"

Morpheus didn't have to know it had happened 5 times, i'm sure the first 'one' who saved them was worshipped like a god, therefore im sure there were pictures or paintings of him. And if they were all NEO they would look like keanu reeves.
It's not important who the other 'ones' were...but i was just straightening out those who think that the other one's were in fact him.

I don't understand how a human being could physically stop a machine...as if he was some remote control type thingy...it's humanly impossible. You were trying to explain it above but it doesn't make total logical sense. Please enlighten me.

[morpheous85]

I thought I would stop in for a minute to clear things up! j/k. I just heard about this whole, "Matrix within a Matrix" thing tonight. It seems to make alot of sense. At the end, Neo started to discover this and therefore, was able to have control over the machine. This would also help explain Agent smith being able to control that guy. And, so far, no one has mentioned the whole seen where the main leader (sorry, I can't remember what he is called.) takes Neo down to the lower levels of Zion and talks about the machines. Could he possible be refering vaugely the the other Matrix? Remember from the first movie that Neo (and possible others) "knew" about the Matrix but didn't know what it was. I.E. They knew that there was something beyond that world. Also, Morpheous mentioned in the first movie that it was about 2199 (correct me if I am wrong.) If that is true, would that be enough time for the Matrix to have restarted 6 times? There are some pretty old people inside the matrix. If each Matrix lasted, say, 60 years, that would be 360 years total. Therefore, the year would have to be more like 2359. If it is a double, (or perhaps more) Matrix, how do we know that the Archetect is real? Or if he is telling the truth? Another comment on the guy who was "infected". Did he "tell" the sentenals their ships position?

And a couple of last few comments.

1. I disagree with the notion that Neo is part machine.

2. I thought the sex/orgy seen was unnecessarily long. I think that it could have been implied rather easily.

3. The seen with the women eating the cake could have also been done better.

4. Maybe we should all just give up trying to understand it and wait for the next movie to explain it all.

Morpheous

[Bigdawg]

I liked it.
I think what's so confusing is about the rogue programs. The architect told us that the Oracle helped design the Matrix, and implied that she led Neo to him. She herself told Neo that she might not be trustworthy, that he had to decide that for himself. Then she offered him the candy, trying to get him to eat it, eating one herself, saying,'I do like candy." I noticed he didn't eat it. I gotta think it was a program, like the piece of cake was. He didn't totally trust her. She's the one who told him about rogue programs in the first place, too, that some choose not to reassociate with the mainframe when replaced, and she said something like "every time you hear about ghosts, or werewolves, that's a program doing something it's not supposed to do. Some programs are even vampires." She set up the appearance of the twins. The French guy reinforces the introduction of controlling programs into other programs with the piece of cake and the blond woman.
Smith has become a rogue program, because of Neo's interaction with him in the first movie. Remember when Smith almost succeeded in converting Neo into a version of himself? I bet that that interaction with Smith changed Neo's hardwiring, not just his Matrix self but Neo's physical brain in the real world. Maybe too his making it into the mainframe itself to confront the architect made Neo sort of "plugged in" to the entire program, too. It changed him in a way that he was more in tune with the entire mainframe the Matrix was in. If you look at it like that, it kind of makes sense that Neo was able to control the drones in Zion. I think that's what the movie intended, not that Zion itself is a bigger Matrix.
I don't think the dance scene in the cavern was an "orgy" but a collective dance to celebrate life, not being plugged anymore, kind of a tribal dance. It was sexual, but I thought it was totally appropriate for the idea of these people hiding deep inside the earth, living completely in defiance of the machines, celebrating the fact that they were alive. People had on skimpy clothing, often see-thru, but the only people I saw having sex were Neo and Trinity.
My last thought is on the cake scene. I can't believe anybody except females would find that offensive. It was a neat sexual metaphor for a rogue program.

[tedward]

This whole "is it real or isnt it real thing" has been covered before in red dwarf - no doubt there are only 4 or 5 'real' people in this game morpheous, neo, trinity and a couple of others.

The crew of red dwarf once got trapped in a virtual reality video game world that was designed to be so good none of them could leave - i think lister even had special powers - and they too thought they had escaped but they only escaped to another computer reality. Honestly the writers of red dwarf should consider court action. Every philosophical isue in the matrix movies was covered - is it real would I prefer reality or wonderland etc.

[pneuman]

I just wanted to start by saying Hello to everyone, as I am new to this site.

I have been reading the posts for The Matrix Reloaded and I must say they offer some very interesting and intuitive insights to the possible theories and messages of humanity this film embodies.

The thoughts I am going to offer now are only my opinions, many of which I have not really decided upon because I have to see the movie a few more times to formulate some concrete theories about this film. I do not think any of the other ideas posted on this thread are wrong or right. I think everyone has their own interpretation of the film, and that is ultimately what the Wachowski brothers intended. Everyone is a unique individual, on their own path of spiritual and emotional transcendance, so we will take from this movie those ideas which aid us in this journey of self-discovery and self-awareness.

Okay, so here goes. My possible theories on The Matrix Reloaded:

1) This is very outlandish and not very probable, and I do not really believe it myself, but..... What if the human race is already extinct? Perhaps Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, and every person in Zion and in the Matrix is simply a computer program. The difference with the "freed people" is that they are rogue computer programs which have been infected with a virus, giving them a mind of their own and thus the capabiltiy to make their own decisions. Furthermore, maybe, like Agent Smith, these rogue computer programs want to bring down the Matrix so they can erect a new Matrix in which they have ultimate control and power. Please offer insights, not insults, on this far out idea.

2) I really quite like the Matrix within a Matrix theme which is becoming quite popular. By the end of the third film, I really would like to see the opposite of the cliche Hollywood ending. Instead of a happy and joyous ending, where Matrix(es) is destroyed, I would like to see a perpetual battle between man vs. machine, a battle that parallels the inner battle of good vs. evil which exists within each of us. Or, if the Matrix(es) is completely brought to ruin, it would be interesting to see the human race become so unhappy with the new world they now exist in that they create a new Matrix to go back to. The message of humanity this exemplifies is that when faced with the real truth of one's character, and his/her subsequent and inherit strengths and flaws, perhaps it is easier to live a lie, an allusion, rather than face the truth. Please offer some further insights to this.

3) The architect could be symbolic of God, and since God knows everything of past, present, and future, including our fates, maybe there is no such thing as freedom of choice. Rather, the illusion of this freedom is what satisifies humanity's desire to decide its own fate and is a weapon used by the architect to control humanity.

4) I agree with the person who posted that there was probably some hidden meanings within the crotch scene, which perhaps we cannot fully understand yet.

5) The sunglasses are an extremely important part of this film, as they beg the question: Through what truth are you looking at reality?

I think a lot of questions are going to remain unanswered until the third and final film comes out. I really was very satisfied with this film overall because it provoked deep thought and analysis on my part, trying to piece together the hidden messages for humanity's existence. I left the theatre feeling very befuddled and my mind clouded with the uncertainty of the many possible philosophies which arise from this film. The Wachowski brothers were ultimately successful in creating a film that was not linear, but rather so complex and diverse, it sparks real imagination and thought on the part of the audience. Well done.

P.S. If you listen to early interviews with the Wachowski brothers, The Matrix was always planned to be a trilogy in their minds. The basic story of each movie was formulated before anyone even saw the first Matrix.

[Carey]

Ok, I saw the movie tonight and I thought some of the fights looked way too ridiculous. There was total lack of color during the freeway fight, which could have been done much better (apparently there is no wind on top of a tractor trailer traveling freeway speeds).

But answer me two things:

If Agent Smith and Neo can each dodge bullets, why is it when Neo kicks or throws one Agent Smith into another Agent Smith, neither one can get out of the others way?

Why is Neo trying to destroy the Matrix from within? I mean, sure, maybe I could write some code that could cook my PC, but wouldn't it be faster to smack the actual PC with a hammer or blow it up, rather then try to fight the code within it to acheive the same result?

Ah well, I'm nitpicking. Good movie. I enjoyed it, but I thought it would be better. Lawrence Fishburne seemed a bit plastic in his 'acting.' Keanu Reeves actually did a good job on this one.

[PsYkOoOoO]

i have qns too~!!someone ans me pls~!


1.i dont understand the speech by the Architect...pls explain in simpler terms..


2.exactly what did the oracle say to neo?


3.what's the matrix within the matrix thing?

my opinion bout the film,is that...yes i do agree that neo is wayyyy to powerful in this film....and not enough agent smith...and the special effect did wow me as much as i did when i watched the first matrix....no big breakthroughs...although i thought the scene when neo saves morpheus and the keymaker absolutely stunning...but nothing new....but it was a good movie though...really...cool...

[himself]

Carey wrote:
"Why is Neo trying to destroy the Matrix from within? I mean, sure, maybe I could write some code that could cook my PC, but wouldn't it be faster to smack the actual PC with a hammer or blow it up"

umm...because everyone plugged up into the matrix would die!!!

you know i was wondering if there was something on the net or in book form that you could read that would detail of everything 'the matrix'...i know u can't buy revolutions...but maybe there might be some book or something from the very very beginning of the story(animatrix - the 2nd renaissence) to maybe...i dunno....well as far as we have seen in reloaded
i really doubt there is but i think it would be cool to read it. B/c if you watch the second rennaisance part II, it doesnt detail of how the last surviving humans managed to build zion and so forth. I want to know!

[stevefan]

I just want to say, that aside from immensely disliking this movie, I find it bizarre and disturbing that the Matrix movies are invested with such pseudo-religious meaning. These are the sorts of movies that pot-heads can disect for hours, because aside from pandering to their paranoid delusions, they mistake incomprehensability for depth and incoherence for complexity.
As an action movie it is barely adequate (the fight scenes look llike a computer game and are interminably long and repetitive), the dialogue is sub Lucas, the biblical overtones are apallingly unsubtle (the peasants of Zion with their offerings to Neo), the acting is almost universally woeful (Zerbe, Moss and Belucci being the exceptions), the sex scene is excruciatingly boring and the ridiculous architect scene simply talks itself into oblivion.
Whatdoes it actually mean to see all the different Neos on the screens?
Why do they need to blow up a power station when the matrix is powered by humans?
Why can Neo destroy the Sentinals outside the Matrix?
How Did Smith become a rogue programme?
I'm sure the answers to these and many more questioin are actually quite simple, so why did they make such a meal of explaining everything?I can only guess it's because they thought that if it was all hard to work out, people would think it was better than it actually was.

The Matrix Reloaded was, I think, the worst sequel to an okay film I have seen in many years. If it was not for the couple of fantastic sequences where you actually sense some doubt as to how the scene would end (the Freeway scene was, I grudgingly admit, astonishing, and 'Trinity'-geddit?!-falling with the guns blazing was impressive), but otherwise a colossal waste of time, and given that in parts it looked like an afternoon kids tv show or an episode of Lexx or Farscape, at $150m a waste of money too. The only reason I can imagine enjoying this pretentious nonsense aside from effects, is the cavalcade of b-list stars of stage and screen from Australia that seem so hilariously out of place.

[thinker]

THE SPOON in the real world!!!

Many have tried to rationalise the matrix in a matrix idea and the 6 ones.

neo is most likely still in the matrix and most likely everyone is and no one ever really got out.

symbolism: in m1 the kid gives him a spoon.. "try to realise the truth...there is no spoon"....right in the begining in m2 neo gets given a made spoon....this was in the "real world"...after the ending you realise that the spoon is symbolic, implying that he is still in the matrix.

there was way too much symbolism in the movie to disect here...not to mention the stuff i didnt pick up the first time...as for the woman orgams, there may or may not be a symbolic meaning for that whole scene...or it could just be directors fun...it will take a few more screenings to decide.

as to why neo stopped the centinals, he cannot be part machine...thats just silly... he's gotta be still in the matrix... when a person goes into the matrix their brain's electrical signals are translated and interact with the matrix over a carrier wave....your brain/body cannot create and transmit electrical signals powerfull enough to stop a tv let alone a centinal!



agent smith taking over a human can be taken a few ways...i dont like the idea of him taking over a person in the real world, although it is plausable...if you look into the physics and science of programming, to interact with the matrix, your brain waves would have to go through a translation process....smith is an AI program...it could be possible for this AI consciousness to replace the object of the person in the matix (like a computer virus) and then get translated back to brain waves and transfered back.

as with time?
in m1 morpheus said no one really knows what year it is...he said "its more likely closer to 2199"...this "the one" scenario might take place over many many decades for all we know...so the year could be closer to 3199....this is assuming that the scenario is not being "reloaded" in terms of computer time intervals...has anyone seen tron?


the architech and oracle:
m1 had a destiny vs control theme... if the oracle is on the machines side then it follows that the "one" scenario could be remanufactured and controlled each time with a new "one", hence the oracle knowing the future because she can aid in its structure and predict via previous data and probilities....this then implies that smith's apparent rebelion "could" also a manufactured one.

this comes back to control and choices...ie. your choices dont really mean anything because you have no control...it also falls back on descartes evil deamon theory about a demon controlling you, what you do, experience and even think.

[pneuman]

Just another theory, and please offer some retrospective on this:

What if the Zion city is not a part of the Matrix, what if it is real life? What if Neo's meeting with the Architect opened his mind so much that he discovered the real truth and unleased the full power of his brain, 100 of it, and this awakening increased his powers infinitely and thus he was able to connect with the machines and destroy the sentinel. Neo can see the computer code within the Matrix, which is why he can control it so effectively. Pehaps becasue the sentinels are connected to the Matrix, he shares a connection with them, and thus can control them.

Just a thought, I'm not even sure if I believe it. By the way, I think this was THEE BEST FILM I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE! Not because of the special effects and the action sequences, which were still the best I have EVER seen, but because of the deep seeded philosophic over and undertones. Simply amazing! Many say this film is confusing nature fools you into thinking it is complex, but because it offers so many contradictions to humanity's accepted belief systems, we deny its greatness and do not want to see the truth. We do not want to free our minds because it is easier to let someone control us rather than take responsibility for our own lives.


I'll be back!

[himself]

hey pneuman, did u read thinker's post just above urs???
he said
"as to why neo stopped the centinals, he cannot be part machine...thats just silly... he's gotta be still in the matrix... when a person goes into the matrix their brain's electrical signals are translated and interact with the matrix over a carrier wave....your brain/body cannot create and transmit electrical signals powerfull enough to stop a tv let alone a centinal!"

too right!

and when u said
"We do not want to free our minds because it is easier to let someone control us rather than take responsibility for our own lives."

are u talking about how we just prefer to be told the answers rather than use our imagination to explore the answers on our own? As an answer to stevefan's
"I'm sure the answers to these and many more questioin are actually quite simple, so why did they make such a meal of explaining everything?I can only guess it's because they thought that if it was all hard to work out, people would think it was better than it actually was."

[himself]

and i know the matrix within a matrix theory is very probable. I just don't want to accept it bc I don't think the Wachowski bro's would do something like that to us. This matrix within a matrix theory is so understandably the right answer...and that is why it is NOT!
That's what they want you to believe........... we'll just have to watch revolutions to see.

[himself]

okay ppl you are gonna be in for a treat.....or something more like confirmation of what everyone has been discussing

okay..my fwend has seen the movie twice..and he quoted the architect as saying that
"99% of the human population accepted the matrix while 1% didnt
neo paused and said "zion"

would that imply that...the machines created the matrix...plugged them up...crops would die..they created 2nd matrix...and there were all these 'the ones' or mathematical anaomolies b/c they wouldn't accept the matrix...so to solve that problem...they created the zion matrix?
and now there's no problem...b/c even though ppl get unplugged from the matrix matrix..into the zion matrix..all they're doing is just moving from 1 program to another

okay now get this,
neo chose the left door, deciding to go back into the zion matrix, save trinity and fight the sentinels
so okay...if he fought the sentinels in the zion matrix and won....so wot?..he's still in the matrix..how was he gonna get out of the zion matrix...hmm...ahahah

has anyone seen WORLD RECORD yet..which is one of the animatrix...the guy who was plugged up into the matrix..was trying to free himself...ie. wake up in the pod like neo did..(all by himiself) and then plug himself out..with no help

okay..now if neo is in the zion matrix..and manages to wake up from that...if he wakes up to the actual REAL WORLD!...there will be no humans and nothing but machines...he needs to build a ship and all that stuff so that he can free all the other ppl in the zion matrix!

[Arrakis]

Originally posted by himself
hey pneuman, did u read thinker's post just above urs???
he said
"as to why neo stopped the centinals, he cannot be part machine...thats just silly... he's gotta be still in the matrix... when a person goes into the matrix their brain's electrical signals are translated and interact with the matrix over a carrier wave....your brain/body cannot create and transmit electrical signals powerfull enough to stop a tv let alone a centinal!"


I'm sure he did, that's why he said that it would take 100% of your brain, as opposed to the 10% we normally use, to do something of that magnitude.

I like the idea of Neo having some outside-of-the-matrix powers. I always pretty much figurd that was gonna happen some time in the sequels.

[Tim37ninjageniu]

I am really against the theory of a Matrix within a Matrix.

1: Its way to obvious
2: It would PISS ME OFF. It would mean that the whole first movie, everything that Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus and humanity has worked for would be completely vain and futile.
3: Neo said and I quote, "Something is different now, I can feel them." SOMETHING IS DIFFERENT. So even if there is a matrix within a matrix Zion and everything was real before and they just then were in that matrix for the first time. I will BE PISSED OFF if it turns out they were all in a second hidden matrix the whole time
4: It would make the entire first movie POINTLESS. The single greatest movie of all time would be made pointless.


All in all it was a great movie. I loved the conversation with the architect and liked the concept that Neo was not the first "one" but since he saved Trinity he now has a chance to actually accomplish what his predecessors could not.

I also like the idea of Agent Smith controlling someone in the Real world. It really isnt that farfethced. If anyone wants to talk Matrix email me at Sportsgi37@aol.com and thats my IM too.

There is no spoon.

[himself]

I agree with Tim37ninjageniu on how it would piss me off if there was a matrix within a matrix type thingy....i had a post before that detailed of how it would make the movies just pointless

but...now its beginning to sound more like the truth...or wot they want us to percieve as the truth...i must watch the movie again..i need to find some evidence to support either theories

[Citizen Kane]

One question I have: how does Smith tie in? The sneak preview for The Matrix Revolutions implied that Neo would have to face off against Smith to save mankind. However, Smith is a rogue program. If he's independent of the other Agents etc., why does everything come down to him?

[himself]

replying to Citizen Kane's question

I believe that at that point in time in revolutions...they'd probably figured out how to save mankind....maybe get to the mainframe and reprogram it so that everyone can wake up unharmed and no one dies in the process. I believe Smith may be the last hurdle before Neo can get there, therefore...he has to face him before he can save mankind.

[thinker]

Originally posted by himself
I agree with Tim37ninjageniu on how it would piss me off if there was a matrix within a matrix type thingy....i had a post before that detailed of how it would make the movies just pointless

but...now its beginning to sound more like the truth...or wot they want us to percieve as the truth...i must watch the movie again..i need to find some evidence to support either theories


i just thought i should say that there is a chance that neo ever actually left the architech....

did anyone see a preview where trinity said something like "give me neo" and the guy replied something like "is he worth that much to you?"

i dont remember seeing this in m2 so i'm guessing its part of m3...so could this be evidence to mean that he was captured and that the last scenes were a mini-matrix just for him...meaning the ship exploding and his apparent control over the sentinals was all part of this...and in reality all that has happened was that he entered the room of light?


then again the whole matrix in matrix thing leads you to think that maybe at the end of the m3 he might wake up out of his pod and free himself hence making the profecy come full circle and meaning that he will actually be the first except in real life... a little too predictable...hopefully it will have a huge insane twist that will save it from controversy.

there are hints in the animatrix that support this waking though...eg. "those that become aware of the matrix have fine sensitivity" or something like that....and then there is the running guy who freed himself.

and the one where they capture the machine and tried to get it to help them helps suport this too as they said "its a machine.. all reality is virtual to them" or something along those lines when they hooked it up to their mini-matrix....this supports agent smiths emergence in a person's brain because its not actually a brain because its still wired into the matrix and he cant tell the difference...something like that?

[ElysiumFirefly]

I thought Matrix Reloaded was good, but I still think I like The Matrix better. I hope that Revolutions is the best since its the last:D

[necronon99]

Neo is all the super heros in one, Tank loaded it in his melon in part one
you just missed it

[Mouse]

My thoughts,

1. Zion is not a program, it is outside of the matrix
2. The architect tries to make the other one's think that the door to shut down the matrix is the right one
3. Neo and Smith are in a coma because they have some sort of bond, created at the end of the 1st movie when neo went into agent smith.
4. Why did the machines create the oracle?
5. In revolutions preview morpheus says "He fights for us," probably talking about smith or sombody. So why is smith fighting neo?

[Mouse]

Originally posted by ElysiumFirefly
I thought Matrix Reloaded was good, but I still think I like The Matrix better. I hope that Revolutions is the best since its the last:D

I agree. The Matrix was better than Reloaded. Revolutions is going to be better than Reloaded.

[Instinct]

All of the first film takes place within the matrix, thats the theory I'm going with.
Zion and the 'real world' are part of a program the machines created to please the 1% that rejected the matrix, while 99% that took it are living their lives the way they've always have.

[Megaman]

Originally posted by djxl2
exactly!!!!!!!!!!!


WORD TO THAT! THIS movie was a TOTAL disapointment!!!!




Nothing what i wanted to see.. BLAH!!!!!!!!! THE MUSIC OMG F***ING HORRIBLE!!!!


IT sounded like it was some OLD man sitting behind a synthicizer thinking 'oh man i need to make some 'cool' 'hip' 'techno' music for this' my dad could make better 'techno' music then that!

It was like such a PATHETIC attempt at sounding 'cool'.


compared to the music selection from the first movie. It was Awesome!!! like the lobby scene where they use propellerheads spybreak! That sound fit perfectly to the scene. the music gives so much more to the movie..



ARRGH!!!!

how did they MESS THIS UP SOO BAD!!!



shut the f cuk up

[Thesean1211]

If zion is another matrix, why cant Neo see the code of the zion matrix. Is it because he isnt aware that it is a matrix. Or is it because zion isnt a matrix.

[onlythetruth]

Good Call Thesean1211. Neo would see the code if it were another matrix. Or maybe he can only see the code in the actual matrix. But the whole idea that Zion is another matrix isn't based on anything. It is an easy way to explain why Neo could stop the squiddies. Maybe the whole thing about Neo and smith sharing parts of each other has something to do with it. Neo can feel them because he has some of them in him now.

[ghoul13]

I found the Matrix Reloaded very intriguing. From the posts, it has poised many questions. I have 1 question that nobody has noticed.

During the restaurant scene, as Neo enters the restaurant,
there is someone being escorted out, screen left. As the person (and the person escorting him) leaves, the matrix code chime music plays. I have seen the movie twice, so far, and all I can make out is the guy being escorted out has a beard.

Did anyone else see this or figure out the significance of this????

[Fable]

I saw the movie the other night, and we chatted alot through the whole thing which is why i may have missed this part. But what is all this talk about the cake scene?

[Fable]

I saw the movie the other night and i may have missed it because my friends were with me and we chatted throughout the movie, but what is all this talk about the cake scene? I don't remember anything about a cake...

[Arrakis]

Originally posted by Fable
I saw the movie the other night, and we chatted alot through the whole thing which is why i may have missed this part.

You talked. Through the entire movie. No offense but I hate people like you. :mad:

And the "cake scene" everyone is refering to, is the scene in which Merovingian was talking about the cake program he made that induced an orgasm in that woman at the restaurant.

[Fable]

OH YEAH! ok i remember now... i didn't fully understand that. thanks. Yeah i agree, that part was unnesesary

[wookie11]

Re: the matrix within a matrix scenerio, I don't think that's what's going on, if it was the whole first movie would be pointless to a degree, why would the agents have spend the entire time trying to get the codes from Morpheous to get into Zion if it was just a program, why would they bother having the centinals attack, and why would they bother destroying it?


if Neo was just supposed to start everything over again, and both were a matrix, the agents would have ruined the entire process by succeding.

I don't know the more I think about it the harder it gets lol, basically I think we're not suposed to understand or know what's going on, guess that's what makes the whole "to be concluded" thing fun, it's a cliffhanger so to speak.....

oh well, enjoyed reading all the posts, looking forward to reading more.

[Tim37ninjageniu]

Okay here is something that i noticed and have been wondering about. Did anyone else think that the lady in the cake scene seemed to look very similar to a certain "Lady in the Red Dress" from the first movie? Are they the same model? Someone check the credits.

[Arrakis]

No she's not, though I don't remember either actress' names, I do remember what they look like.

[thebtskink]

3:14 ..... that time in the final scene.... could it mean Pi?

[himself]

replying to thinker's
"did anyone see a preview where trinity said something like "give me neo" and the guy replied something like "is he worth that much to you?""

it was more like
"You give me neo or we all die, right here, right now"
agent asked
"you are ready to die for this man?"
..."believe it!

I think it is quite possible that when he went into the left door...or maybe when he used the key to enter the room with the architect...he may have actually entered into another matrix that is under construction...a zion matrix! and only neo is in it..and that world has been created for those like him. So the whole ending is in the new zion matrix. So that means the ppl in the real world find out about that. And they go into the matrix...hence trinity asking to get neo back.

and replying to Ghoul13's
"the guy being escorted out has a beard"
i just had a look at the revolutions trailer a few secs ago. You see the asian dude who fought neo fighting some ppl..perhaps for the humans...and you get 1 glimpse of this scary grubby looking guy with a BEARD! obviously he will play some significance in the next movie...good spotting! ahha

[Kloo]

ghoul13... i noticed that too, but i assumed it was just the keymaker?
Maybe i was wrong.
Anyways, some people before were talking about Neo not being the first 5 "The Ones".
Here's some food for thought for ya's :)

Use symmetric groups. Remember that 'neo' is a permutation of 'one'? Maybe they're referring to S_3, the group of permutations for {o, n, e}. Then for the identity permutation, obviously, we get f_0(ONE)=ONE (the identity element--kinda neat) and then for the other five we get: f_1(ONE)=EON, f_2(ONE)=OEN, f_3(ONE)=NOE, f_4(ONE)=ENO, f_5(ONE)=NEO, Any reason to design the Matrix using symmetric groups? Also, 6 is the first perfect number.

Some other ideas...
Morpheus is actually a boss bad guy, because of the connotations of his ships name, and his name itself.

OzRoy posted;
1 - The Nebuchaunezer(Morpheus' ship) is named after a biblical babylonian king who was the sworn enemy of Zion. Coincidence?
(extended:If indeed it's following a biblical theme, Nebuchadnezzar was actually used as the hand of God, to sweep away Zion for the cup of it's sin had overflowed. )

2 - Morpheus is the god of sleep and dreams in greek myth; perhaps an interesting coincidence, perhaps a sign that morpheus is working for the machines (if agent smith can control a human mind by infecting it within the matrix, what is to stop more powerful programs from doing so?

[Arrakis]

Use symmetric groups. Remember that 'neo' is a permutation of 'one'? Maybe they're referring to S_3, the group of permutations for {o, n, e}. Then for the identity permutation, obviously, we get f_0(ONE)=ONE (the identity element--kinda neat) and then for the other five we get: f_1(ONE)=EON, f_2(ONE)=OEN, f_3(ONE)=NOE, f_4(ONE)=ENO, f_5(ONE)=NEO, Any reason to design the Matrix using symmetric groups? Also, 6 is the first perfect number.

I actually noticed that too, pretty cool.

[Kitty]

*sits back and reads the posts while getting so terribly confused*

[HoustonsProblem]

now you see my friend and i have been brainstorming on this one subject for about a day now and cant figure it out so im hoping someone can... if the architect reboots the matrix... what is to stop the machines from drilling down into zion and why would no one in zion remember what happened... the architect has no control over the real world... so what exactly happens when the architect reboots the matrix? does everyone else in the real world get rebooted somehow too?

[HoustonsProblem]

Originally posted by saber5
darkma773r,

I don't know what your talking about.. the first 15min of the movie has a lot to do with the ending of the movie!! You say that certain things wasn't explained like what happened to tank .. but I do recall them mentioning Tank and the fact that he asked his brother or cousin(not sure of the relation) to pilot the ship for him if he died!!.

I Just wanted to clear up those facts for you .. I think you might have missed some of the explanations for a lot of the stuff because the words were too intricate for you to understand!!

As for the rest of everyone's explanations on the Matrix and Zion being 1 and the same just on differen't platforms.. I can't say I agree with that but I will go and see it again and try and figure it out for myself!!

I can tell ya I thought the Dancing scene was a little too long but I do see the point of that scene.. and the orgasm scene had a purpose too.. sure it could have been explained in another way but it had its purpose!!

everyones not understanding this... neo is always the one... the only one... and the reason morpheus doesnt kno its neo goes back up to my previous post that talks about when the matrix is rebooted what happens to zion.

the architect says "and then everyone is forced to retrace their steps" which blatantly says that when the matrix is reloaded, everyone and everything happens the exact same... which means Neo is the only 'one'

[Thesean1211]

Quoting himself:
I think it is quite possible that when he went into the left door...or maybe when he used the key to enter the room with the architect...he may have actually entered into another matrix that is under construction...a zion matrix! and only neo is in it..and that world has been created for those like him. So the whole ending is in the new zion matrix Unquote

Supposing what himself said is true, how come neo in the "real world"/zion matrix cant see the code? It would make sense that he could see the code in either matrixes. Just a thought posted earlier by myself.

[onlythetruth]

Everyone does die in zion. The architect tells neo this. They don't remember cause the survivors are from inside the matrix. The prophecy that Morpheus talks about states that The man born into the matrix freed the first of them. The "one" before neo chose 7 men and 14 women to start over in zion. the cycle continues and every hundred yrs or so the cycle starts over.

[onlythetruth]

The only thing that can stop the machines from destroying zion is Neo.

[bgraf0587]

heres what I think about this all-

The original Matrix was made to contain people and according to the architect, 99% of the people in the Matrix accept it. Also as the architect said, it they left that 1% who didnt accept it unchecked it would result in a total system failure or whatever. So, my thoughts are, what if Zion and the whole "Real World" is yet another "Matrix" to contain the people who didnt accept the original matrix, but are tricked into believeing that the world they live in (Zion) is real, when in realitiy it is just another "Matrix".

-Also, this is kind of way out, but in regarding the other persons post that has given reasons for Morpheus to possibly be bad, what if Morpheus is a program running in the Zion matrix that is used to "free" the people who no longer belive in the original matrix and take them to the "Zion" matrix.

[The FM]

There is also a good chance the Neo is actually "The One".

In part 1, Trinity tells him that "you move like they do(referring to the agents), I've never seen anyone move like them."

He is the only one of all the people who are free that can fly inside the Matrix(up to now we have not seen anyone else fly).

The Oracle tells Neo when they finish talking in Reloaded, "For what it's worth, you made a believer out of me." Remember, there supposedly were 5 versions of "The One" before him.

The Merovingian was really more upset that Neo defeated all of his henchmen and left the scene like the classic villian of all the movies we have seen: " Mark my words, boy, just as I have survived the previous ones, I will survive you." (Bet he never said that to the earlier versions)

Finally, the arch. was taken back when Neo noticed right away that his question was not answered.
I think this is the first time anyone went thru the left door.

Morph.: "What happened?" (when finding Trinity holding Neo)
Trin.: " I don't know."

That is because "The One" is finally arrived to end the Matrix. That is why the machines are digging asap before Neo gets to them.

I might be wrong but these scenes got me thinking.:cool:

[sTealTh76]

Here is a theory to toss around.

Smith is part Neo, and Neo part Smith, from their exchange and the end of "The Matrix". He now represents the same kind of improbability to the Matrix that Neo does. This element of improbability is what let Neo manipulate the Matrix as he sees fit.

Smith may have that power too now, IF his consciousness weren't running on a machine that is bound figuring using equations instead of improbilities.

So.. he now has transferred his consciousness into Bane. Bane hasn't made it back into the Matrix yet though. Smith's consciousness operating out of a human brain (using improbabilities) in the Matrix could possibly give him the same powers as Neo in Revolutions.

Neo vs. Smith, with Smith having equal powers. Why else would he be facing off against only one Smith in the Revolutions trailer? He can easily topple many Smiths, unless there is a Smith that has the same powers as Neo.

Okay, I know this may be a bit far fetched, but I think it could happen. That my theory.. someone tear it apart for me. LOL

[pneuman]

I just saw the movie again, and some of my theories are starting to take some shape, and I would appreciate some feedback.

Pay attention, this makes sense:

The Architect explains to Neo that the Oracle is actually the one who found a way to enslave humans in the Matrix. He says that the Oracle came up with the solution to give mankind free choice, at least on a subconscious level, whether or not they would accept the Matrix. Thus, 99 percent test subjects accepted the Matrix. However, there was a 1 percent anomaly that did not accept it, aka Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, Zion. These people found a way to free themselves form the Matrix and build Zion. Now, this is where Neo is so important to the Architect and machines. The Architect explains that within Neo is the PRIME CODE of the Matrix, and when Neo walks through the right door to Reload the Matrix and save humanity, his code (and thus himself) disseminates throughout the Matrix and reboots the program, and thus re-enslaves all those who were freed from the Matrix. The reason the Matrix must be reloaded is that when enough people have been free from the Matrix (which are the 1 percent anomaly), they begin to threaten the existence of the Matrix, threatening to bring it down. So, this is why Neo must reload the Matrix. Thus, the Oracle might be bad, helping to find The One in every instance the Matrix has been reloaded and sending him to eventually end up at the Architect. Then the Architect convinces Neo to save mankind by rebooting the Matrix. However, the Architect also explains that the 5 previous incarnations of The One had a general love for mankind, and not a love as specific and great as Neo has for Trinity. As a result, perhaps the Architect is unable to see which door Neo will really choose, and because Neo chooses Trinity over rebooting the Matrix, he believes he will have a chance to save Trinity and finally free all humans rather than continue the perpetual loop of reloading. For the Architect says Neo is the beginning and the end, and thus Neo can finally bring an end to this. The Oracle might be deceived into sending Neo to the Architect, or perhaps she sees that Neo is the TRUE ONE who will make the decision that the Architect cannot see and save humanity by finally freeing us. Remember how Neo takes the red candy from the Oracle and they are talking about free choice at that time? And in the first movie the red pill was the pill to free you from the Matrix. Thus, the red candy is a symbolic gesture of Neo's ability to actually make a free choice uncontrolled by anyone else. So, either the Oracle is bad, by either purpose or by being deceived, or she is deceiving the Architect by really believing Neo is the one. She does say to Neo, "You've finally made a believer out of me."

Summary: Neo has the prime code to reboot the Matrix, without him, the Matrix cannot be destroyed. The Architect needs the Matrix to be rebooted every so often so that the growing 1 percent anomaly of people who reject the Matrix cannot bring it down and thus end the power source for the machines.
This is also why Agent Smith wants Neo dead. Because if the Matrix is rebooted, so is Agent Smith and he loses his new powers. But if Neo dies before the Matrix is rebooted, the Matrix can never be reloaded. Then Agent Smith can copy himself over every human being and computer program in the Matrix, and thus gain power and take ultimate control over the Matrix and thus mankind for all eternity.

Hence the name of the film: The Matrix Reloaded.

Offer some insights, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PsYkOoOoO]

Originally posted by Megaman
shut the f cuk up


word to that..

[HoustonsProblem]

Originally posted by thebtskink
3:14 ..... that time in the final scene.... could it mean Pi?

i read in a magazine that the wachowski brothers did intend that to be Pi

[The Philosopher]

Just a couple of queries and thoughts i had:

1) The Architect and the Oracle are both programs (I'm assuming created by the machines). If these programs are making other programs (weird), then when tey get rebooted, wouldn't their memories be erased like everyone elses. How do these programs function when they aren't in the matrix. This baffles me a bit.

2) I'm pretty sure (although ive only seen it once) that there are 23 people to be taken back when the Matrix is rebooted to rebuild Zion (16 female, 7 male). Is it not significant that this is the number of chromosomes in a human before fertilization when we are "half complete". I thought that this might be saying that without the Matrix the humans cannot survive. i.e we need the matrix.

3) If there is 2 matrix's, whats up with the so called real world in between where they fly around in their ships doing all the things they do? is it possible that they can hack from one matrix into another matrix and then also into the real world?

4) I was a bit confused by the mainframe bit. What is Neo actually aiming to do now. I had the impression that as soon as he walked through that door the world would be over.

5) Lots of other things that i found a bit weird, cant wait for the dvd commentary :) see what they really meant.

[himself]

replying HoustonsProblem's
"everyone is forced to retrace their steps" .... everyone and everything happens the exact same... which means Neo is the only 'one'"
i believe what he means by retracing their steps is the procedure is basically the same..doesnt happen exactly the same ALL THE TIME...if it did...then Neo wouldn't be in love with Trinity..which is different!

and for Thesean1211 's
"how come neo in the "real world"/zion matrix cant see the code?"
Neo can't see all types of code and everything. When he was about to see the oracle...he looked at the asian guy and he was just a mere glow of light to neo. Maybe he's coded using a different code type...and maybe the new zion matrix is too.

And it's great that pneuman has seen the movie twice...getting some more info and some harcore evidence. I plan to watch it again tomorrow...
"Thus, 99 percent test subjects accepted the Matrix. However, there was a 1 percent anomaly that did not accept it, aka Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, Zion. These people found a way to free themselves from the Matrix and build Zion"
"when enough people have been free from the Matrix (which are the 1 percent anomaly), they begin to threaten the existence of the Matrix, threatening to bring it down."

the machines obviously cant have this happening...that is why i believe that they have constructed a zion matrix. Anamolies are created b/c the machines still can't write the perfect code to depict human behaviour...i.e choice and freedom. Some humans plugged up are always feeling like there's something wrong with the world...that's b/c they lack freedom, they have choice that isn't really choice...and the choices they make are really already predefined by equations. The human mind doesn't accept life b/c he/she wants to believe that they have a choice or have freedom.
"All reality is virtual to an artifical mind"
Thinking that you are free is as good as being free to the mind.
I think the machines may be getting sick and tired of having to reload the matrix in order to survive...its an inusiance..and plus they run the risk of actually being brought down. That is why they have decided to create the zion matrix so those who free themselves from the matrix matrix end up moving into the zion matrix thinking they're free, hence they will not be anamolies no more in zion b/c they no longer think that something is wrong or feel that they're missing freedom. This is the PERFECT MATRIX!

But this is not complete yet...they plan on implementing it...i think Neo is their first test subject...and that's why u see trinity in the matrix matrix wanting to get him out of the zion matrix in the revolutions trailer.

[thinktank]

Originally posted by himself
replying HoustonsProblem's

and for Thesean1211 's
"how come neo in the "real world"/zion matrix cant see the code?"
Neo can't see all types of code and everything. When he was about to see the oracle...he looked at the asian guy and he was just a mere glow of light to neo. Maybe he's coded using a different code type...and maybe the new zion matrix is too.


"All reality is virtual to an artifical mind"
Thinking that you are free is as good as being free to the mind.
I think the machines may be getting sick and tired of having to reload the matrix in order to survive...its an inusiance..and plus they run the risk of actually being brought down. That is why they have decided to create the zion matrix so those who free themselves from the matrix matrix end up moving into the zion matrix thinking they're free, hence they will not be anamolies no more in zion b/c they no longer think that something is wrong or feel that they're missing freedom. This is the PERFECT MATRIX!

But this is not complete yet...they plan on implementing it...i think Neo is their first test subject...and that's why u see trinity in the matrix matrix wanting to get him out of the zion matrix in the revolutions trailer.



i just thought i needed to add that a reason neo cant see the code in the zion matrix(if it exists) is because in m1 he couldnt see it until he completely beleived and realised the truth...in the zion matrix he thinks its real just like in m1 when he could not see the code cos everything looked real.

also, there could be a chance that neo never left the matrix after meeting the architech....which may or may not blow the matrix matrix out the door.

[Tyrian]

First of all I can relate to your thinking and I agree for the most part. However, theres a couple of things we need to remember (To anyone who hasnt already I cant stress enough that you need to head over to www.theanimatrix.com and watch everything you can there and understand all you can)

- The chain of events so far

> Man continues down the technological highway "And for a time, it was good"

> Man then created machine in his own image

> The machines worked tirelessly to do mans bidding, yet never earned any respect from their masters

> B166ER was the first machine to rise up against his masters because his owners wanted to terminate their "Property". B166ER was prosecuted and quickly destroyed after being found guilty of murdering his masters.

> This caused the machines to protest and revolt and thus the machine was banished by humanity.

> The machines sought refuge in theor own promised land and they called it '01'

> Having 01 created the machines prospered created newer and better "AI" which could be seen in everywhere in mans society and eventually '01' surpassed the human realm as a nation, with the human economy collapsing due to 01's large industrial growth.

> Man isolated 01 from the world and imposed econimic sanctions on it.

> 01's embassadors pleaded to be heard, and at the united nations presented plans that would enable man and machine to live in harmony however their admissions were refused by the united nations.

> Mankind sought to destroy 01. the machines resisted

> Mankind conceived operation 'darkstorm' to cut the machines main energy source - the sun

> The battle between man and machine raged on for centuries, the machine eventually close to completely destroying all of humanity.

> The machine realises it can use the natural energy of humans as its energy source (Thus every new born is "Harvested" and the matrix is born. And the world as we may know it.)

- In my oppinion the oracle is exactly what we're lead to believe, she is simply an AI that 'believed' that giving humans a choice would lead to their success in the matrix ("Youve made a believer out of me") meaning she now beleives there is good in humanity (there is one other possibilty which I'll get to later) I dont think the candy is relavent but an intreasting point none the less.

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